“If Someone’s Life is So Awful that They Want to Die, Why Stop Them?”

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Stop suicideI have been asked some variation of this question more than once – even by mental health professionals. Once, a therapist told me about a client of hers with schizophrenia. “He is miserable, and he will always have schizophrenia. I think letting him kill himself is humane.”

Indeed, there is a whole movement around “rational” suicide. Rational suicide includes physician-assisted suicide, which involves a physician prescribing a lethal dose of drugs to someone with a terminal illness. Physician-assisted suicide is legal in Oregon, Washington, and Vermont, as well as several countries around the world.

Yet “rational” suicide extends beyond people with a terminal illness who want to  avoid a prolonged, painful death and to control when they die. Some proponents of rational suicide advocate its use in the case of physical disability. Some even consider suicide in the context of mental illness, such as depression, to be rational. In fact, in the Netherlands, where euthanasia and assisted suicide are legal, depression is a permitted reason.

Why Stop Someone from Suicide?

There are many reasons. The most important reason is that suicidal crises, though formidable and painful, almost always are temporary. Consider that 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide. That number is very revealing. Even among people who wanted to die so strongly that they tried to end their life, most ultimately chose to live. 

Golden Gate Bridge suicide

Years ago, a TV news show did a piece on the Golden Gate Bridge, the site in the U.S. with the most suicides every year. Death is almost certain when one jumps from the bridge. More than 1,500 people are known to have jumped to their death, and only 30 or so are known to have survived. So when two young men, in separate incidents, jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge, they were absolutely intent on dying. And yet, even with the certainty that they wanted to die, each told the reporter that the moment they jumped off the bridge, they regretted their decision.

These extreme examples illustrate that the wish to die is fluid. It comes and goes to varying degrees. A great many people who are saved from suicide are thankful, sooner or later, to be alive. 

Another important reason to prevent suicide is because, proponents of rational suicide notwithstanding, in almost all cases suicide is decidedly irrational. Research consistently indicates that 90% of people who die by suicide had a diagnosable mental illness at the time of their death. Mental illness distorts thinking. What is bad can become good, and vice versa. Often, very often, when a person’s mental health improves, the wish to die goes away.

An Irrevocable Act

Yet another important reason to prevent suicide is its obvious finality. There is a saying, “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” (Many people in the suicide prevention field dislike this saying, because it implies that suicide is a solution of any kind. But that is a topic for a different post someday.) 

Suicide is indeed, and obviously, permanent. Yet life is always in flux. As long as a person is alive, things can change. Perhaps their external situation is unchangeable – perhaps they are permanently paralyzed, or perhaps they have a chronic incurable illness. Even if their external situation cannot change, their inner world can.

There is always the possibility that they may find ways to cope. Or they may come to appreciate different things in life. They may find a purpose in life that gives their loss or trauma meaning. Whatever the case, they may discover things that make their life worth living.

A Question for You

I have given some of the reasons that suicide should be prevented. Others have different reasons. 

Do you think suicides should always be prevented? Yes or no, what are your reasons?

© Copyright 2013 Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW, All rights Reserved. Written For: Speaking of Suicide

Photos purchased from Fotolia.com

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  1. Dad says:

    Suicide – The only mistake you will ever make that’s permanent!

  2. V says:

    It’s my life and I would like to have the option to end it with dignity, without being pushed to have pieces of my brain splattered on the wall or something similar. I don’t want it, I never wanted it, every day is painful and I wish it was over already.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Seriously contemplating killing myself and i do not begrudge anyone who did so.

  4. Cavepool says:

    I love what the comedian Maria Bamford says about suicide: “If you stay alive for no other reason, please do it for spite.” Damn right. That said, it’s a personal choice and no one else’s business.

  5. Anonymous says:

    i feel like dying right now

  6. Angel says:

    Desperate attempts to keep those who wish to leave is very arrogant and bigoted. Death, in my opinion, is not the end. But it is a new beginning. Whether we die and go to heaven/hell, whether we die and NOTHING happens just lights out, or whether we are incarnate/reincarnated into another life or form of life, death is an illusion and is not “permanent”. You will, no matter your beliefs, enter another life where your soul/plana/chi/etheric body or consciousness, will continue. I know this to be fact, but because we live in such a left brained fear based society, I cannot claim this indefinitely per my own experience. That is for you to decide. Death is a human construct that is a derivative of our fear of the unknown. Us, as humans, fear that which we do not understand. But if you delve into your “SELF” and ask yourself the right questions, the fear will subside as the right answers come. Nothing is new under the sun, and no matter is created in this universe, yet is only redistributed, since the mass of the universe(s) remain finite. Don’t fear death, welcome it as it is inevitable for ALL of us in this form. BUT, understand that if you do resort to suicide, much like Tylenol, it’s only a temporary solution to a temporary problem. And you’ll find yourself, aware of it or not, fighting the same battles in your next life/stage, of your life.

    Do not for one second think that your problems will go away, because that is a common misconception. Trust me, someone who struggles with manic depression, I know the struggle all too well. But it won’t fix anything. You’ll instead be denying yourself the opportunity of fixing this issue NOW by prolonging it, to be fixed in another present moment.

    I won’t tell you, or myself, to “NOT KILL YOURSELF”, but I will say that YOU DO MATTER!

    I know this all too well, and wish that someone said this to me, but it isn’t the case. And I know that sometimes all we want is to hear that from family or those we care about, but know that we are all family. That we are all in this together. That this TOO SHALL PASS. It is only the beginning. Not the end. So make your choice based on your own free will, and understanding of what is to come. Two choices are only available to those who are contemplating these measures: 1) Kill yourself and deal with your residual energy (emotion – energy in motion) or 2) refrain from doing so, and get the help and support that you need, in this life.

    Whatever you choose, peace be with you. Namaste. And I LOVE YOU!

    We never truly die, we simply transform and evolve. However you wish to understand this passage is your choice. Know it to be truth.

  7. Adam says:

    According to numerology the holder of the name AMY suffers a lot,try to change your name to a strong name such as Sara

  8. Grumpy says:

    I think there should be always the choice to die. Even if you are content with life and still want to leave. i always want to die. Just do not want to be part of this system. You work to live . I do not want to. Nobody gave me any choice if i wanted to be born. I see what people do to this planet and i just don’t want to be part of that. Even if you try to be better the system requires you be part. You need to eat. Need to work .need transport yourself. Need heat at home. Multiple times per day i wish i would die that night. I don’t want be part of any relationship. I do not want to be here. Not this planet. Not this time. Not this universe.

  9. Tina says:

    I think suicide is a great way to end suffering. Life is terrible. Just die if you want to. I mean, what’s the point of life anyway?

  10. Anonymous says:

    I believe suicide is a relief from a life of torment from depression. I have had depression for 25yrs. The demon never fully goes away. It always lurks and taunts. There is no peace. Every day is a struggle. It’s not so much a matter of wanting to die, but one of life being unbearably painful. And having attempted suicide twice, i can tell you the body really doesnt want to die. I still want to die, but am broken after two failed attempts What a REAL loser. Life is no more than a prison sentence inside a defective body. How cruel…

    • Tom Hal says:

      “Life is no more than a prison sentence insides a defective body.” Wonderful line.

      Some people have “defective” bodies but still choose to go on. That’s their right. The rest of us who’re living in emotional and physical pain, abandoned by family and friends for being too unpleasant (while being exhorted to “be honest”), ought to have the right to turn our backs on life. We’ve paid our taxes, even when we couldn’t afford to. THEY made this world we’re otherwise obliged to live in. Our taxes ought to guarantee, minimally, a medically competent, painless, instant way out of life.

      Come to think of it, you know who’s “fault” this suffering is? Parents who get to decide FOR us that we should be yolked with life.

    • Think yourself lucky very lucky ! My partner suffered depression made several attempts to end his life which had been one of mental physical and emotional abuse bullying and a father that committed suicide whom he watched self harm as a child his 1st attempt put him in a coma the 2nd caused nerve damage to his leg and foot leaving him crippled in pain and having to wear a calliper for the rest of his life his foot was so damaged after hearing this his 3rd attempt he succeeded and died in my arms ……he was 23yrs old . I read up about depression and suicide statistics show 75% of those that attempt suicide tend to be successful on the 3rd attempt …….I asked mental health for help I alerted them they ignored me and my partner lost his life as a direct result of not being listened to by mental health services which was proven after an inquiry ……

  11. Patricia says:

    I think people should be able to kill themselves if they can’t deal with life anymore. I am sick of other people and laws intervening. It should be an individual choice.

  12. Amy says:

    No one notices you or the pain when you’re here so why do they care when your gone?? We have the struggles of living but the burden of hurting others left behind if we leave! I’ve gone my whole life feeling alone unwanted unloved invisible yet i pour out my kindness n love onto others so they dont have to feel the pain i feel everyday i wouldnt even wish it upon my worst enemy now im 25 with 4 kids im finding it harder n harder im getting weaker n weaker to hold strength

  13. jason says:

    hello. my name is jason. i was born with a very rare physical disability in which my kneecaps pop out of their sockets. i have no warning of when this will happen, and i have no control. i broke my arms, my teeth, and almost everything else from falling down when i was smaller. i was born with an ovarian disorder that makes my hormones completely insane. i am autistic. i am ugly. i was abused by my best friend for many years, and i now suffer ptsd. i have depression, a whole bunch of anxiety disorders, and some of my doctors think i’m schizophrenic. i cannot concentrate. i cannot fucking concentrate. i am literally dying a bit more every single day of my life, and all people do is smile and ignore my pain. nothing helps. my knee surgery was a huge failure, i cannot take the hormone supplements for my ovarian disorder due to me being transgender. none of my fucking anti-depressants ever helped once. talking makes me feel worse. i hate every single part of my body and i live a constant nightmare. the only reason i stay around is the guilt of how awful my family would feel, and who knows if they’re a simulation or not. every single time i extend my love into the world, my big heart gets broken and beaten and crushed. no one cares for my heart, and no one helps me. even my drug dealer sucks. the endtimes are upon us as we speak. the world is literally getting torn apart…

    and you expect me to stay alive for the vague hope that someday my life will be “better?”
    if that’s not torture and abuse, i don’t know what is.

    • Tom Hal says:

      Jason, first, I’m really sorry for your suffering–for the suffering of everyone posting… You raise a very important point: what is the advice for those who aren’t marginally-different, but rather radically-different–in ways society happens to deem very-wrong? Those so far on the periphery of society that meaningful integration, even after many faithful attempts, is extremely unlikely. Yes, the professionals also tell this subpopulation they must “stay alive for the vague hope that someday [their lives] will be ‘better.’ ” Why should anyone–professional or otherwise–be entitled to make such a decision for anyone else–and especially those who’re objectively being scathingly ostracized, deprived of even a modicum of ameliorative socialization?

  14. Anonymous says:

    I love how therapist and the like will tell you that your feelings don’t have to be justified by others and then turn around and tell you your desire to end your suffering is unjustified because they don’t agree with it. Yes if you live longer you may find something to make you smile but whether one smile is worth a lifetime of pain is a personal decision. I could see an argument on society getting to weigh in only if it would be a risk to the continuation of society. As in when mankind was recovering from the Black Plague. We’re 7 billion strong now, so stop oppressing free will.

    • HollowLife says:

      ////Anonymous October 9, 2016 at 1:18 pm.//// >>> I agree with you completely, and this is the sad situation, that if life is without any problem, societies will create one just so they can help you even though you don’t need any help. This is the artificial intelligence and the great fall. LIES LIES LIES.

    • Anonymous says:

      Thank you for the agreement. I like to think society just hasn’t figured out that there’s no problem here to fix. I wish they realized that the best thing is to ask the person if there’s anything that could be done to make life better and if the answer is no ask if there’s anything that can be done to make dying better. It bothers me as well that people try to negate the desire of those suffering but not immediately dying to prevent further suffering. Suffering is suffering and having to endure it longer shouldn’t make it ok.

    • Tom Hal says:

      I just read your line, Anonymous: “the best thing is to ask the person if there’s anything that could be done to make life better and if the answer is no ask if there’s anything that can be done to make dying better.” That is the most humane and lucid proposal I’ve read anywhere.

      I think if humans survive another century without having so demolished the ecosystem, and one another, that we can continue to afford to give philosophy much thought, it will seem obvious that it is inherently wrong–for the state, physicians, and any therapist (especially so-called therapists)–to force another human being who has decided she doesn’t want life to remain alive. This is only compounded by the obvious: that the state cannot afford to provide for the obligatory survival of such people. So, having been commanded to stay alive but having no will to live, we are then relegated to the growing pile of humans for whom there are precious few means to physically survive (all with the cost of ever mounting competition) and who then … die of deprivation. Charming. We can’t leave life unless it’s slow and tortured because we can’t afford life.

      I suppose its morally easier to let people linger and die, financially destitute and utterly abandoned by support networks research keeps telling us are vital, since you can then claim they were guilty of the great sin of not-enough-effort, than to allow them access to quick, clean, painless euthanasia.

    • Anonymous says:

      Completely. But I mean completely.

  15. Stuart says:

    When trying to prevent someone from committing suicide it’s like trying to convince them to continue suffering the pain and depression they’re going through. If someone wants to end it then it is unacceptable to make them continue through the life of hell they are in. Not to mention that whether or not they commit it’s not like it would make any difference compared to them dying later in life. In other words, if someone commits suicide then all they are doing is choosing not to continue going through the pain in their life instead of suffering it through the rest of their life to the time that they die in their future life. I mean it’s not like if they don’t commit suicide then they’re going to live forever compared to the way most people act, but even if they did all it would be is a constant life of suffering the pain and depression. It is unnecessary to stop someone from committing suicide. If they do decide to, it is their choice. Let them decide and choose whether or not to stop or continue on in life.

    • Tom Hal says:

      I wish we could applaud audibly in comment sections. :)

    • Anonymous says:

      Agree 100%. I would even add that painless suicide medication ought to be available over the counter. Nobody so far has been able to give me one good reason why not.

  16. Broken spirit sweetie says:

    Absolutely not. A grown adult is capable of making their own decisions. We have to live with our own pain locked in our soul and body.

    I remember looking at a doctor after trying to commit suicide and he smirked and told me I was a threat to society…and I ask really, how? ? I don’t even eat animals, or kill bugs+ I would give my last dollar to anyone that needed it.. I only try to do good and would never hurt anyone besides myself. Why should you force someone to suffer and he just threw the papers down and jumped up.

  17. chris says:

    i have already died once. i feel if i want to go back, i should be allowed to, even helped in getting there. suicide prevention has gone too far.

  18. April says:

    Suicides should not be prevented. A conviction is just that, a conviction. Why waste time trying to stop someone when they felt it was necessary for them?

  19. Logic101 says:

    This article is a piece of shit. At the moment, I am doing what I love, feeling good and looking forward to going to a mates place in about an hour. Do I still want to die? Yep. I have no future, and I have known it for 12 years. I hate who I am and, through 100 attempts, I have not been able to improve it. I know I’ll feel shit again eventually. I go to bed thinking “wouldn’t it be nice never to wake up again”. My suicidal desire is not irrational. I have weighed up the pros and cons, and I know that sooner or later I’ll end up feeling miserable all the time with nothing to live for–probably once my folks die and I have no one left who loves me. I realise that sounds stupid since I am going to a mate’s house, but this is a mate who invites 199 friends and never really cares if I show up or not, so it’s just for numbers, but I enjoy it so I’ll go. But yeah, I still want to die. I hate articles like these because it takes that decision out of my hands; so some people are irrational, what of it? Should the logical people suffer because of the emotional people?

    • HollowLife says:

      The whole of existence is an existential business and we are nothing but a species to contribute our fees and dues to higher forces who have so conditioned life mostly for their own purpose and amusement that also keeping us in bondage through religion and biochemical conditioning… The ones that would like to be set free must find ways to be released from this matrix. I am contemplating over my death/suicide and I would like to speak for myself as I have come to realize and somehow penetrated through this game/manipulation. If mankind reaches the point to voluntarily commit suicide then the higher powers and the powers of the world will be threatened from their higher positions that is why the church prevents birth control and also suicide, We are just business and money for those in power. The question is how to extinguish oneself so completely by seeing the facts that life and the entire existence is too boring and full of headaches. By force we arrive to this world, by force we live, and by force through deterioration we also die… and/or to be forced even further after death. I must enquire deeply until I come to the point to be fed up and not want any more life but complete EXTINCTION. ((((((0)))))) Here’s a quote on Buddha’s enlightenment:>>>>///”There is, monks, a realm where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind… neither this world nor the next, neither sun nor moon. There, monks, I say there is neither coming, nor going, nor remaining; neither deceasing nor being born. Without foundation is it, without continuity, without support: this is the end of suffering” (Udana).///

  20. masteroftimeuk says:

    life is not fair, the saying is you reap what you sow, but in my case, it i choose to live my own life and god had his plan, so what am i meant to be a robot? if you do something in life and it was good then why are people being abused, by god, because he break his own word, i’ve never thought of suicide, until god wanted to test me, now i feel like committing suicide thanks god, your own selfishness let you down because you must play god with everyone’s life

  21. Anonymous says:

    I’m just really tired of having to push through adversity. I’m not a victim and I am aware that there are people who have seemingly more difficult lives than I do but it’s all relative.

    Needs are highly influenced by environment and in my environment, I barely get by. Constant management of scarcity is the theme.

    It sucks to live like this: worrying, trying, worrying yet managing to try some more to improve my life but not able to. Call it failure or not, makes no difference. This cycle is demoralizing and I fight each day to figure out what the F I am doing here.

    I don’t really care why things are difficult for me anymore. I don’t care what other people think. I just don’t want to feel like this anymore.

    If the pattern I live in were in a different context, people would readily advise to stop it and do something else. They would even support you ending whatever it is. Like that common definition of crazy, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

    So I’m not obsessed with trying to kill myself but I just want to stop living. I want to stop the pain and internal struggle of each day. Dying seems pretty rational when I consider it this way.

    • Anonymous says:

      Beautifully put. I see death as a relief from the struggle and internal hate. I wake each day wondering how in the heck did I make it this far. I’m not physically, mentally nor I’m I financially built for this world. Some days are good, but the thought of death is constantly present. I pity those who look down on people who contemplate suicide, because suicide ( the thought or the action) is a scary thing. I mean none of us know what’s after death, I silently grieve for all my good brothers and sisters who feel hopeless and tired right now.

  22. Samantha says:

    I think suicides for all children, teens, young adults & those under 40 should be prevented unless they have a terminal illness, including mental illness. Those without terminal illness under 40 have enough years to heal, find support & turn their lives around. Adults over 40 who have been living with chronic pain, have no support system & limited financial resources should have assisted suicide available to them because at least they won’t have to die alone, risk bungling it if no gun is available or experience extreme pain en route. Also the cost/ benefit factor is at play. Cheaper to purchase euthanasia rather than more yrs of medications for illness, housing, food…for what? Low standard of living, feeling like you’re a burden on society. For isolated people with mental illness, no one else is impacted by their death so it’s a win-win situation.

    • Tom Hal says:

      Did you actually type, “For isolated people with mental illness, no one else is impacted by their death so it’s a win-win situation”? What a disturbing assertion, given your platform of “[t]hose without terminal illness under 40 have enough years to heal, find support & turn their lives around.”

      I can only imagine how the suicidal over 40 reading that felt. And, for that matter, what those under 40 who’ve been trying very, very hard for significant percents of their lives to “turn their lives around” but who’re still in grave pain despite professionals’ interventions felt reading those lines.

      No disrespect meant, but the ideas you’ve expressed here are among the very ones self-determination antagonists use to justify proscribing physician-assisted suicide, due in large part to the slippery slopes of those arguments.

  23. Anonymous says:

    You know how to actually help? We need support. Real support. We need to set up networks and safety for people who are suicidal. Do you know why I feel suicidal? I don’t have anyone, and I can’t trust anyone. The people I care about can’t handle my emotions and suicidal thoughts, so I CAN’T talk about it. I can’t afford therapy, so I can’t talk about it. We need to destigmatize. We need to actually offer support for the suicidal instead of treating it like a private thing to shove in the closet and only talk about with a shrink. Rationalizing and saying all the stuff that anyone who’s suicidal already knows- it doesn’t help. Helping helps. Direct action helps. If you wanna support someone, do it. Don’t make them feel worse than nothing.

    • Tom Hal says:

      Love it: “Rationalizing and saying all the stuff that anyone who’s suicidal already knows- it doesn’t help. Helping helps. Direct action helps.”

  24. Hybert says:

    I agree with most of the comments. It’s really stupid how wanting to die is taboo, and shamed. Why do the folks who feel this way turn into pariahs? It has to change. People who feel suicidal aren’t stupid, they know how stop the suffering.

  25. vivi says:

    I want to die,sometimes,just because Im so tired. But okay. I won’t say it. It’s just an idea comin from my head several times. I was victim of violence who is smart. I saw so many people gossiped and talked bad things of me which are not true until now. Im not perfect child just like my late younger brother. I want to end my life because of depressed of hurtful words of my mother. I want to run away out of home. Escape. Im so tired.

    • Tina says:

      Please find help from school or your city human services department. You have a long life ahead of you.

  26. Unknown says:

    I agree with pretty much everyone on here. I don’t mean to sound like a heartless bitch but a person should be allowed to control his or her own death, seeing as none of us have control over our lives. They say we do, but we don’t. I don’t particularly have a bad life, but I’ve always been a good person with a big heart and yet somehow I’m always the one getting hurt in the end. I want to die for myself but I want to live for the ones I love, because I know they would be devastated if anything happened to me. Some days I actually do feel glad to be alive. But for the most part, I find myself constantly battling depression and I fear that one day I’m going to give up and lose altogether.

    • \ says:

      I agree that it is your life but others would be hurt. Life sucks.

    • Tom Hal says:

      You don’t sound at all like a “heartless bitch.” You sound like a rational, realistic person who understands her own life better than anyone else can understand the same life. And these assertions of your, in particular, strike me as fundamentally true: “…seeing as none of us have control over our lives. They say we do, but we don’t.”

      I agree–despite the philosophical mumbo-jumbo about autonomy, and the moralistic ephemera about personal responsibility, not to mention the deeply culturally embedded fallacy of meritocracy–we’re not in control of our lives. Our decisions are constrained by countless variables we have no control over. And whether traditional religion or the modern religion of mental health, we’re told some responses to stimuli are good and others are bad, that we suffer because we keep choosing the “bad responses.” The therapy is, of course, re-educating us to choose what others deem “good responses” to the painful stimuli of life. Most of us react to circumstances, make choices we hope will work out. Very often we’re wrong, and for some of us those wrong choices, as for most other animals in nature, can eventually be catastrophic and irremediable.

      The one piece of peace we could offer the suffering masses, among whom I certainly number, is the freedom to choose to leave this game of life with expert medical intervention that would quickly and painlessly bring an end to our suffering.

  27. Cheerful on the outside says:

    Even when everything is good on the outside (good job, happy family, etc), a part of me feels hollow. I keep thinking I should be grateful for what I have and that this is enough. I have had a dream for a long time and I am afraid to pursue it because I will have to move away from my family to another country. As I live my day-to-day, I noticed I have grown numb. I follow through the motions and react accordingly to what’s expected. I have not told anyone of my feelings because they are too busy venting their own problems to me. I do not want to hear it now. I want to tell some of them that their problems will not go away because they are NOT taking responsibility for their actions. It can’t ALWAYS be someone else’s fault for every problem they encounter. And I do not want to hang out with these kinds of people even if it’s family. I feel like they will not understand until they lose it all to realize the value of what they already had. Sorry for the ramble, but it occasionally drives me sad to the point where I have bad thoughts and consider numbing the pain forever.

  28. Anonymous says:

    I don’t think suicide should be prevented in the adult population.

  29. Normal Person says:

    Does it really matter if we die? Aren’t we gonna die anyway? This is what we were born for: suffer and then die. And it’s just fucking stupid. Life is just too bothersome, why do we try to force others to live? I want to take my own life. I don’t want to die. I just don’t wanna exist anymore. I don’t wish this on anyone else, but what the fuck can I do?! I don’t know what to do. And neither do you. I mean, we’re all fucked, some of us more than others. Don’t they turn shit off at the hospital once everybody’s tired of waiting for someone to be able to breathe on their own? Suicide is like plugging it off. Let people fucking die. Who gives a fuck. We’re all gonna die haha we’re dying bro

  30. Sean says:

    People want to stop others from suicide because of the empowerment they feel and excitement they get from saving a life. Also, people love being right. They will tell you that if you kill yourself you will go to Hell. If they can convince you of this not only will they have saved your life, they will have “saved your soul”.

    • Anonymous says:

      Well to bad for them. I’m Atheist. Plus. I’ve had people prevent my suicide and they were sad. So ya know. Have experience before you presume. I’ve tried. Multiple times.

  31. Anonymous says:

    There is no joy in living

  32. Odie says:

    I have been depressed most of my life. My first attempt at suicide was 8 years old. I have taken every antidepressant known to the United States psychiatric community and they do lose their usefulness after a year or two and at best, they help make the acting “happy” easier.

    I’m done with life. I’ve tried meds, talk therapy, group therapy, floatation tanks, rebirthing, and the latest, mindfulness and meditation. They help temporarily but here I am planning my end of life. I think that we all should be free to choose our time of death if we have tried everything available for depression or any other illness. I have been diagnosed with major depression, PTSD, de-realization, major anxiety which doesn’t make for an easy or even a meaningful life. Who wants to feel like this all the time?

    I’m planning to go to Switzerland where chronic major depression is accepted as a terminal illness. I don’t understand how anyone finds life desirable. I most certainly don’t. I say that if you can get through your depression, then I support your willingness to live. As for me, I want to choose to make my transition and finally find peace.

    • Tom says:

      I love you Odie. I hope you find peace.

    • Anonymous says:

      I want to meet you. I wish I could be your friend. I already love you.

    • HollowLife says:

      To odie: To my understanding, it’s not only dying physically, but the importance is dying psychologically… dying to the world period…until you come to the point where nothing can attract you any more. Slowly you rearrange your mind and built in determination, cut down to the meds/drugs, bear the pain and do aimlessly walking, Stop eating and drinking and within 10 days you will experience departing this world consciously. NOTE: before we came to be, we were not…now that we are, we cannot be for too long and neither without suffering and death lingering over our heads, and the last card and will is to be used by our will and determination. The greatest way to die is not to feed this body/nature any more by refusing it’s involvement. Stepping out of this cycle.

    • Tom Hal says:

      I second “Tom” from 30 September 2016.

    • Anonymous says:

      Please keep posting
      Actually ur text sounds like me
      Just wanna get past that stigma
      In nc in therapy and on meds
      But no help
      Please give any advice

  33. G says:

    Ive been so depressed. I want to die, I don’t want to die. But nobody actually helps. WTF kind of article is this? Nobody actually understands unless they’re in the same f*cking boat! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told I’m being dramatic and others have it worse- nobody wants to help!

    • Anonymous says:

      I do

    • Samantha says:

      I think one of the worst things anyone can say to a depressed person is “others have it worse.” They’re not hearing you, they’re invalidating your feelings, it’s a dismissive tactic. I’ve battled depression since 14 yrs. old, my ignorant father used to say that & it shut me up but I was also left feeling I didn’t matter. So next time someone says that, you tell them they are invalidating your feelings as if you don’t matter. There’s no comeback for that!

    • Tom Hal says:

      I agree with you. What’s most damaging about “professionals” in so-called mental health is that these human beings OUTSIDE the experience of your mind get to tell you how you ought to feel, and worse, get to force you to act a certain way concerning JUST your life and body. None of this is guaranteed to help, and if it doesn’t help, you’re now obliged to continue suffering, hurting. Until when? Decades of torment as new-“treatment”-after-new-promising-“treatment” fail?

      It’s as if the “professionals” write for themselves and others who feel and think as they do. But the rest of us are labeled wrong and defective because we feel and think differently. And there’s no discussing these matters with them. They actually believe, just like the dictatorial religious in centuries past, that they’re justified in deciding FOR you both how you (should) feel and what you should do with your own flesh. It boggles my mind that a culture as “intellectually advanced” as ours supports this. In the meantime, those of us actually LIVING our lives continue to come to our conclusions, regardless the official (but separate from us) pronouncements of mental health boards, and, silently, make our plans, and carry them out.

      The only thing gained by commanding people who want to leave life to stay here, besides our continued suffering, is gruesome endings due to the determined among us desperately seeking out uncertain and even painful ends.

      In the distant future, should humanity survive, people will look back on this age of the religion of mental health as a dark smear against both empiricism and personal freedoms–especially in the context of inescapable suffering. Imagine telling people we have to accept the horrors of lives we never chose–chronic under- or unemployment; explosive college tuitions; crushing “good” debt with no conceivable way to escape it in our lifetimes; fragmented families; chronic loneliness; ubiquitous judgments (too tall/too short/too fat/too skinny/too…) that dehumanize, isolate, and legally (thanks Supreme Court) justify employment, and hence survival, discrimination; and a government–and local authorities–that the globe’s best scholars demonstrate don’t care what the masses want. Add to this unremitting pain from injuries or illness, ever mounting costs-of-living with no way to pay the increasing costs on a life you don’t even want in the first place, and a myriad moment-by-moment vexations (like barking dogs you have no control over, or daily bullying, or…), and it’s PHENOMENAL another human being would presume to command us to subscribe to the doctrine of life-is-good. Simply phenomenal.

  34. Anonymous says:

    I’Ve been living with depression since I was about 8……My father is an abusive alcoholic who always finds a way to hurt me and my mom is a drug addict who doesn’t listen to me anymore because she doesn’t care about anything anymore…..I’m an only child and don’t have any other relatives or any friends at all…….and I would get bullied badly at school for how I looked and because of my shyness…….I hurt everyday of my life because I have no one else to talk to i’m just waiting to die…..I don’t have money to do anything I can’t pay for a therapist I am hurting everyday of my life I’ve prayed to a God that never listened……I just want to leave this world so badly it hurts to breathe in such a toxic world…. My heart has scars on it that can’t be erased…. They all just tell me to get over it because others have it way worse….

    • Adam says:

      Hi Anonymous
      I really want to talk to you, if you’re intereated. I know how hard it may feel and I really want to help you. Please let me know, if you want to talk.

    • vivi says:

      Hey, Im also an only child who lost my late younger brother 4years ago. If you want to share your story, we can be friend through email. Send me before dying(Well, I also get that idea of suicide,too): vivi.trump@gmail.com

    • 0fuckinbitch says:

      Hey, I forgot to tell you my email. If you ever want to talk to anybody, just drop me an email. Eventually we can become friends.

    • Anonymous says:

      I’d rather not talk to anyone about my problems I heard the same thing all before believe me, it’s gonna get better, it’s all in your head, others have it worse than you just no stop it I know what it means when someone says lets talk they mean they’re going to tell me to go to a therapist and get medical help or that it’s all in my head…….. I’m just tired and there’s no one in this world who can help me I know that now….. and I’m tired of getting my hopes up when people say lets talk it’s the same bs over and over again….i’m just stupid woman who needs to die…… and it’s not heartless to tell someone to die when they really want to or in some cases need to in my case I’m going and I can honestly say my life has been absolutely worthless and it has all been in pain everyday of my miserable life I wake up crying and go to sleep crying it’s been like this since I was born, yes I was diagnosed with depression at 8 but I was suffering long before that I’ve been abused by every single person I ever came across and was never loved ever I never been in a relationship…… and I never will be I wasn’t loved I was hated no matter how much I loved everyone they hurt me all of them my parents beat me (even though I’m an adult now) people at school beat me and my parents take my money so I can’t save up the money to move out………I was abused in every way possible physically, mentally, sexually, and emotionally…. when I was four I was beaten and molested by an old man who kept doing it until I turned 5 and finally had the courage to tell my father also I went home one day with a black eye….. but it messed me up pretty badly and I became sexually dysfunctional……..I don’t mean to sound like a bitch or anything I just know that no one can truly help me and it just hurts talking about it…… it hurts everyday of my life knowing I don’t have anyone or anything I don’t feel safe and I definitely don’t feel loved I should have every right to die knowing I don’t belong here…… and that’s exactly what I’m going to do…….

    • 0fuckinbitch says:

      Sorry, if I hurt you anyhow, I really didn’t meant to. It’s ok, if you don’t want to talk. And actually I wasn’t going to tell you anything like “it’s gonna get better” or “go to a therapist”. In fact I never say that, because I don’t trust them.
      I just want to ask you to think about 2 things.
      1. Is there something, that you like and enjoy doing? There must be at least one thing. I mean anything: music, art, movies, books, looking at the sky… Any little thing.
      2. What if there’s a way out of that situation, that you just didn’t happen to find yet?
      I’ve never been in a relationship either, and I also have suicidal thoughts, but this things help me to keep going. You don’t have to answer, just think.
      Wish you all the best.

  35. Anonymous says:

    I suffer from PTSD due to living and then policing in a country ravaged by terrorism and find it a struggle every day to find a reason not to give up but now my wife has been taken from me due to a sudden illness and I have lost that reason.

  36. stuart says:

    Anonymous I totally hear you. Throughout the last two and a half decades of my life I have hated it along with about all people I see. Even though my parents pay thousands of dollars on me as well as assist me through college I still come to a failure from being frustrated and puzzled with the fact of thinking about committing suicide throughout 90% of my life. Most of my life is nothing but spite and hatred. Living life is like living in hell. The times about ten years ago when I was in high school and got beat half to death 4-5 times a week from people including my family for the fun of it. Lots of times these days I imagine myself getting out a 45 hand-gun and shooting 7-15 people in my sight. Most times these days I just keep thoughts of suicide to myself because talking to someone else about it would just make it worse despite the fact of them just constantly talking about how much you hate life along with everything else. What difference does it makes whether one person out of trillions dies or not. Be the same as one ant out of 10 colonies dies. Not like if we don’t commit suicide we are going to live forever. If you ask me, the only difference it makes is dying earlier than other people(everyone dies eventually). If someone wants to commit suicide then so be it.

    • Joan of Arc says:

      I get it, lately I’ve been feeling dazed and confused; lost and shattered. I sometimes get lost in the anger and disdain i feel for my parents for having me. I mean they were both poor, of different race and their only thought was to pleasure themselves and in the process I was given the chance to be birthed, hated, humiliated, beaten, scorned and betrayed. I wake each day and carry on because of my doggy and cat. They’re my nutrients. I feel for you and wish that in some way we can help each other.

    • Dale says:

      If you want to die then that is your right as it is your life but please do not kill others that may want to live and may even be doing some good in this lousy world.

  37. Due to the nature of the subject and that of many of those who have found there way here, this post will go largely unread……but for the benefit of those who might read it….
    I have been following these comments for quite a long time now and too much of it is from people telling tales of how bad things are for them rather that keeping focused the actual reasons why what we now call suicide, should be legal and accessible.
    Stories of woe make a person seem as though they are of the victim mentalitity, are out of their mind and are not rational at all.
    This plays the ball very nicely in to the court of the “mental health professionals” who immediately use this lack of composure to back up their backward outlook and fighting very hard to keep our right of life away from us.
    This in no way helps the cause and gives undue credibility to those who believe that suicide is never a rational choice.
    Let me put it this way, if i go to the chemist screaming for codeine because my head is killing me, they will look at me like i am a crazed drug user and they wont give me anything except a security escort to the door.
    However, if i go in calmly describing my headache symptoms, they will most probably say, hey, you really need this product here that has these active ingredients.
    We will get no where if we appear as crazy as the rest of the world seems to want to believe we are.
    So, please dont come here with ” i am xx years old and have been abused since i was xx and no one loves me so i should be allowed to die etc etc etc”.
    Let me say that the vast majority of people leaving comments here also have real and shocking stories but they do not even need to come in to it or be posted here.
    If we are ever going to be given our rights, we must do our very best to display to the world that we are in fact rational, sane and have given this serious and delicate subject immense thought and consideration.

  38. jester says:

    What I find funny is “solution to a temporary problem”.


    Like in the last 20 years has anything changed for me ?……..hmmmm……..nope!!!.

    Its still the same, i still want to die, I still am force to drink and smoke to somehow bring on terminal cancer so FINALLY I will HOPEFULLY be allowed to get euthinasia injection etc.

    Its seriously BS to me.


    You want to know the sick reason why there is this drive to stop suicide etc ????

    Because if everyone could freely use a peaceful drug to die then the rich wouldnt have anyone to do work for them!!

    The rich would all of a sudden be like WTF?!?! Where is my food!?!?! where is my new shoes!!?!??! WTF??A??A


    That is the real real agenda.

    You can try to deny it, but in the end, its all like an ant colony except there is more than 1 “queen”. Say maybe 10000 or so super rich ? (basically the queens of the ant colony)

    If all the workers had a choice and decided to go, F the queens id rather die, well the queens wouldnt be very happy would they, they need the workers to support their lifestyle or they DIE.

  39. Ash R says:

    I don’t know what ‘illness’ I have. But I’m 25, and since 16 I’ve felt really alone, shattered and miserable. There is an immense pain that I go through on a daily basis which nobody understands. I don’t know why I haven’t committed suicide yet but I know that the time to do it is getting closer and closer. I’ve just had enough of people who pretend to understand what I’m going through when they don’t. Therapists, Psychologists, Psychiatrists etc have no idea- they live happy lives, they have qualifications to tell us broken people how we should ‘cope with our feelings’ but they know nothing about our anguish- they don’t truly understand and they will never be able to.

  40. robin s says:

    Life is pain sprinkled with brief moments of waiting for the pain to begin again. I have existed for 55 years and I have never been happy to wake up and see another day. I have tried every antidepressants and all they did is make it so I have to not only pretend I’m not wishing for death everyday but I have to fake a libido too. I really can not think of one reason to go on. I don’t kill myself because my insurance policy would not pay out.

  41. Cat says:

    To some ending the suffering is not negative. But a direct course to solve an imbalance. To die is not horrific. Its taking the next journey that is waiting. I look forward to the powers that compel me to continue and give myself to the inevitability. I dont so much want to die as to be dead. I am not afraid and wait with happiness for my turn.

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m impressed with your writing. I love how your brain works. I’m with you. I feel the same.

  42. Anonymous says:

    To me, preventing suicide from those who genuinely want it is abuse. You’re forcing them to live life when all life is to them is pain. I’ve had depression for 2 years and everyday breaks me down more and more. I take a lot of medicine, but it doesn’t help at all. My mother is afraid that if I take any more, I’ll have an overdose. I can’t stand to be around anyone. Not even my parents or siblings. Whenever I’m around someone else for more than a few minutes, I start to boil inside because I hate being around anyone. Whenever someone does something annoying to me, even if it’s a slight breath that I can hear, I start to scrape my head and all I can picture is me mutilating them. For example, my dog is breathing on the couch next to me and I keep yelling at her to shut up and I just want to kick her in the face, even though I wouldn’t do that. I can’t handle the slightest amount of stress. Even when my mother does most of my work for me and just has me write out the answers, I complain and want to cry because I can’t even write down a few words! What is wrong with me!? There are so many things I want to achieve, and I can achieve some now, but I can’t even come close to starting any of them. I can remember plenty of times when I was stressed and kept saying to myself, “You can do this, you’re strong.” but I could never finish anything because I’d start crying because I can’t handle anything. I’ve gone to a psychiatrist and have had plenty of appointments with her, but she never made me feel better. Literally all she did was make me more sad. And on the rare days that I was happy, she would make me cry because she reminded me of all my problems and how pathetic I am. I’ve wasted so much of my parent’s money on useless crap. Like virtual items and things I never use. I’m such a fat, disgusting slob that when I tried to go a week without eating any sugar filled things, I didn’t even last an hour. My dad always reminds me of how much of a failure I am. I can’t count how many times he’s told me I was pathetic and a waste of time. He almost always verbally abuses me, my siblings and my mother. He’s been getting very violent lately and just today he yelled at my mother and threatened to get a divorce. My mother said he says that multiple times a year, but he hadn’t been that loud about it before. And he went up to my brother’s room and started screaming at him because he couldn’t pluck up the courage to call the place he planned to get a job at. He ripped the cables of my brother’s computer out of the wall and slammed the door. My mother says that if she wasn’t a stay at home mom and actually had enough money, she would get a divorce and take us all away from him. She says that when she and he were friends that my dad would always be friendly and sensitive, but now he’s always mean and angry. If she had known he was going to be like this, she wouldn’t have married him. I’m scared that he is going to hurt me or my siblings and mother. I don’t feel safe and just want to leave the world, but I can’t. When I say to my parents that I wish I wasn’t here and I wish I could die, they either roll their eyes and give me an un-amused face or they yell at me and tell me to shut up. I’ll never be able to hold a job, because I can’t stand stress and I absolutely hate everyone. Even my mother has started to see that. I have tons of symptoms for Autism, ADD and other mental illnesses and am going to get a diagnosis for a few of them soon. I just hope that the new psychiatrist I’m going to visit sees that I’m constantly in a state of depression and agrees to lock me away from the world or assist with my death. All I am is a burden, so why keep me alive?

    • Anonymous says:

      Do you like nature and are you able to walk. This would relax your mind by focusing on the trail the trees the sounds and wildlife. Remember that thinking when depressed is almost always never a good idea you never want to get in your head it makes it worse. Find a book get involved there’s got to be something your good at. Babysteps to a positive consistencies and try your best to avoid the negatives.

    • Anonymous says:

      I think I know what you mean when you say that you just cant stand being around anybody. I feel it everyday. Of course there are persons I tolerate a better than others but truth is that I have to make an effort to interact with most people. Yet there are a few with whom i do feel comfortable and enjoy being with, I guess that, sadly for me the people with whom I feel more comfortable are not always near and they are very very few. I do feel, like you this constant tension, and sometimes minor inconveniences make me want to punch people in their faces. I guess it is because throughout my life I had to face situations of constant stress. I was sexually molested as a child by my aunts husband. I remember I was around 5 years or so, and it lasted at least for a couple of years. My mother left me at that house where they were supposed to take care of me. Obviously I lived in constant vigilance and evidently didnt feel secure. On the top of that, my mother only went to visit me like 3 days a week or even less perhaps,and she was emotionally distant. Even though it was pretty clear I wasnt happy where I was (I cried a lot every time she went away because I was too little to express any other way the despair I felt in that house) she still would not even stop to try to figure out was going on because for her it was a lot more comfortable to think that all was ok. And so finally I moved out from there and started living with my older sisters ( they were like 18 years older than I was) and it was the same emotional neglect but at least I wasnt molested any more. Still my sisters used to abuse me emotionally and verbally. I was neglected in every possible way, the only difference between me and a totally abandoned child was that I was sleeping under a roof and went to school (until my mother decided that she wouldnt pay for my education anymore) and could eat a hot meal from time to time. That was all.
      Time passed and I started working when I was like 17 or 18 years old, finally I could eat well and dress nicely, and could enjoy life within my means. I took the time to educate myself and to become acquainted with people of better quality than my horrible family. I guess I could manage to find a little happiness and my life wasnt as crappy as it used to be when I was little. Still, I was naive and somehow I loved my family despite it all, now I think I just didnt want to face the true dimension of the damage they did in my life and how low and toxic they were.
      Some other time passed and I managed to marry a guy who seemed nice enough (even though I wasnt exactly in love) but I did love him deeply. At 29 he was the only person with whom I could feel I was being taken care. I could say I felt happy for some time during the marriage but mostly I felt more at peace, I thought I could finally relax a bit and enjoy companionship and all the things that you are supposed to enjoy when you get married. Then after 5 years of marriage and completely out of the blue ( I was returning from a 1 month vacation in another country!) he said that he wanted the divorce and that he would give 5 thousand dollars so I could “start my life”. I wont write here all the horrible things he did to me during that time because that would take pages and pages of painful memories but I can tell you that during that time I developed something like PTSD, started having sleeping problems because I was scared of nightmares I had every night and I was also scared that everyday I would wake up I would have to face all the pain of my situation. I was scared all the time, I couldnt understand anything that was happening, later, a few months after the divorce I found out he impregnated a lover he had (I wasnt aware of that) and that was the reason why he wanted to divorce me, still I could never understand why he had to be so mean to me especially if he was the one cheating!
      Well, after that I went to live with a girlfriend of mine whom I loved like a sister and she also let me down. What can I say, my life has been a disappointment after disappointment for the last 10 years. No matter how much I tried to get ahead, my efforts had been in vain and all that left me is this hopelesness, depression, bitterness, anguish and frustration. I feel like there is no positive feeling in my heart. After so much betrayals and failures I just dont have the energy to trust anyone or to try anymore. Im sick and tired of this existence, and dont want it anymore. As someone said “Too many things went wrong too many times.” So, it is only natural that I want to punch peoples faces as I ran out of patience to take any more crap. And yes, for about a year Ive been thinking about committing suicide and i dont think that is due to any “mental illness,” on the contrary, it is perfectly natural wanting to die when you just cant find any satisfaction whatsoever in any aspect of your life and at this point of my life and with my current circumstances I doubt I ever will. So, what is the point of perpetuating my suffering?

      You girl, I think you feel like that because you are not surrounded by people with whom you feel secure, loved, and identified, and sadly you probably will be feeling like that until you find some kindred souls with whom to connect on a real nurturing level. I sincerely hope that you find your bunch and that you find them soon. In the mean time, take your dog for a walk and realize that she might be the only one that doesnt judge you and loves you as you are.

    • Sean says:

      Woah, dude. You need to smoke some weed. Seriously.

    • Broken spirit sweetie says:

      Please, know that you brought tears to my eyes..
      I was your mom.. my daughters told me to leave get out, away from the madman.. their father ..But, it hasn’t been easy and unfortunately, very hard. Surely why your mom has stayed with your dad .. I know, been there..However, it’s not your fault at all. You will gain from that negative childhood..
      … it really will make you a better person . Understand nobody is fat forever, trust me!.. adulthood with someone who needs you by their side to support them will completely change you .You can walk away from that crazy family to someone else and then look back and say, thank God .. I’m out of there ..+ you will become a stronger person that will benefit.. and know how to raise your OWN children better…

      You can start a new Legacy..

    • Zee says:

      I agree with you, I have been suicidal since I was 7 years old, I am now 17, so I have been trying to do what people tell me to do to get better, for 10 years now, and nothing has changed. I was put in foster care when I was 7, and I was placed in my aunt’s home for about a year, she physically abused, and emotionally. I was moved around like a box that was ripped up and bruised, and because of that no one wanted me. I was placed in 3 rehab centers in the past year. I want to die, in my heart I know I do. People tell you that it will get better, it’s just a temporary problem, you have a lot of people in your life who love you, you’re just using suicide as an excuse to get out of things that you don’t like to do. People don’t understand that some of us won’t heal, we may look like we are getting better, but we do it to make others happy. I mean, if a person wants to die, then let them. It’s their life not yours.

  43. Justin says:

    i have schizophrenia, and it is a horrible hell to live with, doesn’t matter how positive you are, what pills you take, how hard you work.

    There is no getting rid of it, it ruins jobs, relationships, friendships. And often causes immense pain of every sort. Yes including physical as your brain misfires thinking your body is in pain when its not, but you still feel it.

    You end up jobless, alone, and poor, with very few exceptions. Not to mention it can cause you to do terrible things when you are not rational.

    Honestly i am doing ok, but nowhere near what my potential was before this happened.

    Its a miracle that people with this disease don’t kill themselves, and no one should blame them if they do.

    Ask yourself, could you live with torture forever? Death doesn’t scare me, life does.

    • Tinkerbell says:

      I have not been diagnosed with schizophrenia but I acknowledge exactly how you feel living with another fucked up situation that you’ve made resulting in a loss of friendships especially when you are lonely, no words can describe how that feels.

  44. Carter Fox says:

    No way in hell should suicide be prevented…

  45. Bill says:

    sydchic I hear you. This is not our planet anyway. I give up. I tried, believe me, but people like us are not welcome here. Somehow though, I want to stay around, to see how much I can torture these oppressors of humanity. Drop me a line.

    • Tom Hal says:

      One of my favorite comments anywhere (thank you): “This is not our planet anyway. I give up. I tried…but people like us are not welcome here.”

  46. www says:

    I don’t care if I wouldn’t have tried it again if I failed. What matters is that I want to die NOW. I can’t regret it if I’m dead.

  47. Marlena says:

    Bullshit. Rubbish. There is always euthanasia. However government and self righteous people chose to not allow it.

    • sydchic says:

      Usually because they are the ones who have caused you to exit your life, they do not want to see what they have done. Being forced to die gruesome deaths by suicide is a punishment.These are the people who say you took the cowards way out!!

      It is about themselves not wanting to face who they really are!!

      Real people who are left with no choice but to wind up their lives, will never be legally allowed to end it, far to confronting!! Really,not even medically induced deaths are not truely legal or humane.

      Their are a range of opiates,however these will of course be illegal.The closest to a ‘humane” death,that those already in horrific suffering deserve.

      If they want to get rid of those with more human traits,like being sensitive or caring ect,then have enough guts to allow them to end their lives without inflicting horrific pain!

    • Tom Hal says:

      Marlena, agreed. Sydchic, very, very well put: “If they want to get rid of those with more human traits,like being sensitive or caring ect,then have enough guts to allow them to end their lives without inflicting horrific pain!”

  48. Cd says:

    Let me die if that’s what I want,

  49. Anonymous says:

    No Suicide should not be prevented. I have lived with Severe Depression, Anxiety, Social Anxiety, OCD and DID to some extent or another, since I was 10 yrs old. That is 48 years. That is enough. I live alone, so as for someone finding me and saving my life… there is no one remotely interested in whether I live or die… It is really just a question of where, when and how…

    • sydchic says:

      I agree. If they offered the world Id give it away.Just want death cant live with so many attacks over decades from sum crzy doctor

  50. MOSU GOJI says:

    I always find it hilarious when some clown babbles that a suicidal person needs to get “help”. It never occurs to these know-it-alls that perhaps the suicidal person has or is receiving “help”. There are countless instances of suicidal people that are on meds and currently receiving counseling and have been in long term counseling yet it’s not “helping”. What then? Do you get “Help-Help”? It’s also true that some mass killings have been perpetrated by people that have tried suicide and had received the magical cure-all “help”. So if someone hadn’t stuck their nose in and allowed that person to kill themselves a mass killing could have been averted. Psychology is an inexact “science” at best and as for meds ask any doctor they aren’t exactly sure why some of the meds work or what other effects may manifest. And psychiatrists themselves commit suicide so that is very telling in how effective this magical “help” is. Feeling suicidal does not have a one size fits all treatment. Sigmund Freud himself died by physician assisted suicide. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201309/are-psychiatrists-more-prone-suicide-pediatricians

    • Tom Hal says:

      Psychology is NOT a natural science, regardless how fervently psychologists argue otherwise. True, cognitive sciences are legitimate sciences, but this is not largely what professional psychologists practice–especially when they impose their value judgments on actions.

  51. Sachin says:

    I want to leave this planet for good….I am sick of my life being made miserable by thugs called “planets” in astrology. I am sick of guides…who won’t guide you when your life needs the guidance the most…and will only do their best to prevent you from dying….i am sick of money minded and corporate headed rotten people….I believe there exist many beautiful worlds where love is the basis of existence and where there is understanding of “Source” or “God”, “the one”…where entities are happy and don’t have to dance with misery all the time and can do whatever they want with complete freedom…

  52. sydchic says:

    I have gone to see the professionals and they have thought I’m best to kill myself.My last psychologist made that pretty clear from the second I meet this person. They abuse with violence and the only way I can describe(used when speaking about economics) but it’s like a trickle down affect.They ruin your life violently and criminally,then your life is miserable.Nothing to do with anything I do wrong,as they forced me to do it by using deprivation/violence/illicit incarceration ect ect ect(mainly threats to my children to control me and force me).I tell the truth,without them life is so wonderful until IT finds me and sets the authorities on me like packs of wild wolves.

  53. Arthur says:

    My life is like a prison right now. I’m unemployed for the 3rd time within a year due to anger management problems. I was diagnosed with clinical deprssion since November and once before when i was 16, I was even in the hospital for a suicide attempt for a 2nd time. Treatment is too expensive, and I can’t find a job that pays well enough to afford it. I’ve tried papplying for higher paying jobs with a solid resume’ but with no call backs and it’s been over 3 weeks. I’m broke, have hardly any food, my family is 175 miles away and I have next to NO friends. My bank account overdrawn by over 100 dollars… I try to reach out to others who claim to care, but I’moften ignored. It’s like I don’t exist. Even when things where much better I still had these thoughts of just guzzling down bleach, jumping off a bridge, electrocuting myself, or taking a lethal dosage of drugs. I’ve even tried to order cyanide capsules online. I’m trappeed, and those that do respond just tell me to ‘pray about it,” which is utterly useless since I am an atheist. The thoughts of offing myself has since then become more common. I live alone and no one even calls to checkup on me unless once in a blue moon so I doubt anyone would even know that I’m gone if i do decide to do it. Makes it all the more tempting. It feels like i have nothing to live for at this point. All I ask for is just someone to talk to. To at the least distract me, but even my best friend hardly acknowledges me. I hate my life…I hate being angry and bitter. I want help but I can’t get it. I’m just about out of options.

  54. Destiny says:

    What if you’ve tried everything and still want to die?! Then should suicide be prevented!?

  55. HollowLife says:

    The first cause of misery is life itself. The second cause of miseries are the religious men that insists in knowing god to have so much love for mankind and that god shows his mercies through sufferings alone and that we should not think of suicide but to endure until god is done with his experiment and finely when hi’s done he can then dump us ruthlessly and be satisfied to that. The only thing, as advised by the priest, we should go to church to donate and pray so god can have mercy on our souls, while this dog/face deity never shows his presence to the world but stays hidden and only sends mercies by prayer alone but his mercies are filled with many sorrows. We are nothing but an experiment that is being done to us by higher beings which they call themselves gods and we are nothing more than puppets for their game, that’s why they don’t want us to use our will and decide for ourselves whether to live with these conditions or to put an end to our lives. If for instance, people use their will and decide to take their own lives, what will be of the world and their gods? surely they will be left high and dry and will be holding on to their own dikks and buttocks cheeks. You see, it was not up to us to be born but now it should be our own decision to die and with dignity at that and not suffer because the experiment went wrong or it was meant to for their own amusement and purpose. There should be 100% our choice to die and neither man nor gods can have any saying over our death. Furthermore: there is nothing that belong to us or to anybody in this world, it’s only a manipulation which gods are playing through our senses and we are only their breeding stock as their game and species for their own amusement and also their sport and food. Once this realization awakens in our minds then death will be the greatest release from being slaves of the gods within this mess of conditions of suffering and optical illusions. Why the world doesn’t permit euthanasia? Because our suffering means business to gods and the world. You know something is very wrong, and the “official” story
    is always a lie.
    But Who is Really In Charge Of Mankind? What are Their Goals?
    What is the real cause of all the Wars, and
    Evil Throughout Man’s History?

    • Marlena says:

      I hope those dicks who did not approve euthanasia have a taste of their own medicine

    • sydchics says:

      none is in charge,thats the problem.One peace of human trash sticks its nose into my life when a child,then I’ve never been able to get it out of my life.suicide is the only way for it to leave me alone.

  56. sydchic says:

    yep have done all this,now it’s how to arrange funerals .I’m angry because i was forced against my will to be like this,until then loved life–god dam loved it! I’ve no hope because authorities want to cover up serious crimes so do things your thinking is not capable of being so low,except theirs.They tried to force me to kill myself and they got it–they made my life hell and I know they killed my child deliberately,on paper its made to look legal with proof!!Sick of it,I’ve had someone wanting me to support their every need since age 14yrs old–so had it!Wish me outa this life soon enough! I tell people hoping one day they don’t support child abuse/sexual abuse then murdering them and it all looks legal and the victims fault!

  57. Anonymous says:

    i want honest friends who know how sick it is to live with those who make domestic violence an option

  58. lisa says:

    I have tried to kill myself many time’s but have a very high tolerance to medication half my family have woke up in the middle of opperations they could tell the surgeons what was said at 9 I saw my Doctor who was about to operate on me next covered in blood because they could not knock me out,in 2009 My Surgeon had to block my view so I would not see someone being operated on the Doctor who was to knock me out kept saying how sorry he was to my Surgeon, then last yr I did stop breathing after being allergic to the anaesthetic & was brought back to life even tho I told the Doctor if anything went wrong fax my Doctor for a copy of my ADVANCED HEALTH CARE DIRECTIVE BUT THE Lawers had kept the orignal and it says you have to have the original at all times or the Doctor does not have to abide by the document, I have suffered chronic pain most my life I have a club foot smaller by 4 sizes I fell and twisted it last week,I never sleep now did get 3hrs sleep on sleeping aids but not now! I had a gallstone attack last night along with a Ulcerated OESAPHAGUS attack combined with a migraine that had me throwing up water my hips,knees,hands & Neck all have Arthritis, so do I think I have the right to end MY LIFE,the answer is yes I am tired of pain this is not living it is just being,I have no hope,I dont laugh I can not even take my poor little dog for a walk anymore to top it off I was in a major hit and run accident so could not prove to insurance company thats what happened so in pain from that too.MY Nana and Uncle died 24hrs apart in 2009 7yrs ago this month apart from my Mum they were my World and my late Pop,my cousin died 2010 3 days after turning 47 my Uncle was 56,I am allergic to so much that I am bloated or have red rash or both ever since a dentist put a synthetic bone graft into an infected gum with out my permission, I told him to wait for the post then I got very sick went back to him he said it was not the graft or the temporary denture but it turns out I am allergic to acrylic, silver,gold and so on.So I think we all have the right to say when enough is enough it is not an easy choice I worry about my dog and Cat my mum and other family members but I am so tired of lying in pain

    • sydchic says:

      Hey Girl,I’m so sorry you are suffering.Please do not take my advice as gospel. I’ve no idea how old you are, if you are young I can tell you many go through these things ( different ways and degrees of pain) and intolerable pain in their lives, eventually they find they had strengths they could never of imagined.
      I can say you will look back at your life one day and wish another persons story of pain would believe that so much good stuff is ahead of them and you may not forget, but be kinda proud and content with who it has made you.

      I’m old.I’m 45 yrs and female and do not have this to look forward to due intentional harm that I will never have protection from.It has caused me much suffering too,for me I have little choice,but you do!

      Please know their are people that care,perhaps you haven’t even meet them yet! Physical pain is shocking to live with,I hope you find people to support you through it.

      You are precious and I would be so upset if i heard you did any harm to yourself,I’m just a stranger and you sound so awesome. xx

    • lisa says:

      Hi Sydchic thankyou for taking the the time to reply and be so very kind ,I was having I feel bad for myself day that nite,with lack of sleep And the Pain from the fall and I twisted my bad foot,I dont always be such a wet blanket The only time,s ive tried to take my life was when I was on anti depressants which always has the opposite effect on me as normally i am a happy-go-lucky human,the pain on very bad days gets to me,but I have the best Doctor and every one who works at the practice, chemist & where they take so much care of you,I find myself blessed from the people who take your blood for test,to the Secretary ” at the Doctors ofice I have the best Doctor she never rushes and is kind and compassionate, as are the staff at the chemist I have only lived in this town sice 2013 but will never move after receiving such wonderful care and the hospital like most hospital ” is over worked under paid give 190% they are wonderful and kind they worked so hard to bring me back to life the care was amazing so I do have to stop being selfish n wanting to go be with my Nana I am needed hear so I will stay and get gall stones out,Thankyou so much for reading my griping I remind myself everyday that I can see,walk and hear.

  59. Catherine says:

    Each of us is an individual. As someone who has tried unsuccessfully twice to kill themselves, I have chosen to not try anymore. Not because life has gotten better, but because both attempts left me with physical problems that make life harder. I know that God did not want me to die, and that I cannot live with any more problems.
    This however, has never removed either the emotional pain that resurrects itself on a regular basis or the daily difficulties that I live. So I live with the constant daily desire to simply end this life. After 35 years of this, I would love a foolproof way out. I am simply not prepared to make what I have to face worse. I would truly love an option other than constant unending pain.

    • HollowLife says:

      I cannot agree that god does not want someone to die, I think it’s the individual self that has not reached to the final decision and still hankers around for a solution to the problem of life. Death will not happen unless someone has completely died to self, world, and others – to the point where nothing can hold you back – you must break all identifications with body and the world – you discard all knowledge and self appearance – you summarize the entire world as an illusion – you cut the silver cord of communication – you reduce personality to “0” – you encounter the unknown – and you remain as the unknowable… But mind has to be completely extinguished on the path for any one to reach the final liberation and get out of the MATRIX.

  60. Lostforever says:

    I’ve been to almost 2 dozen mental hospitals looking for “help” to prevent a actual suicide attempt. I’ve been on every medication on the market. None of which have helped, only made things worse. I don’t believe there is a medication out there that actually helps. It may blind you from the problems of your life for a while, as they did for me. But reality always comes back sooner or later to remind me how horrible things still are and always will be. I can’t find peace, no matter how hard I’ve tried. I’m not going to kill myself, unfortunately. However I’m passed sick and tired of being “alive” just to try and deal with all these emotions and pain daily alone. I have absolutely no one in my life anymore. I have managed to push everyone away with my behaviors while trying to deal with things. It never was intentional, but fact of the matter is, I never failed to destroy every relationship I’ve had. Relationships that I can never fix. This is the end for me, I’ve seen the end of the tunnel, there’s no light. Only more pain and suffering. So I will disappear into the woods, leaving all behind. Which fortunately is nothing but this cracked phone I’m write this on. I will stay there alone as I’ve been for a while, and die like an old dog does when it knows its time is up. Everything I’ve read here, I’ve heard before. None of it is helpful unless you have support, which I have none. So now that I think about it, sorry I wasted your time with this. Goodbye.

  61. Dolores says:

    I want to die….. I wish there was something like an exit button where you could just poof disappear instead of most messy suicide methods…. I am almost 40 and my life has been torture ever since I can remember….. I have borderline personality disorder and I know I will never live like everyone else..form relationships like everyone else. …I am tired….. Exhausted….I don’t care how many people tell me how great I am they don’t know what’s its like to live with constant anxiety, depression, self doubt, low self esteem…. I have tried almost every anti depressant, anti psychotic and everything in between….I even tried electroconvulsive therapy…..nothing works…the only reason I am still here is my family….I don’t want this to destroy their lives but I don’t know how much more I can take……

  62. Anonymous says:

    The autonomy of ending ones existence should not be a governmental decision but rather the decision as to ones own beliefs. Once my faithful friend, my dog I rescued, seemingly my only friend passes away, I am sure to follow him. I want to go home to my Mom, to a place where the sun shines with big puffy clouds, it’s about 70 degrees where the Fall foliage is at its height and the apples are crisp and crunchy, where my 3 dogs and I can run through the woods and swim in the cool water.
    I want to go home where Mom has a nice turkey dinner with real mashed potatoes and real butter waiting for me with a warm apple pie . . . this is my here after . . . to run free and to be free . . .

  63. Anonymous says:

    I have wished God would take me because of severe depression. Sometimes I wish doctors would find a terminal illness because it would be an end to constant highs and major lows of mood disorder. I have felt mad at God for allowing depression to continue with no end in sight.

  64. Randy B says:

    I am 56 years old. In the last 10 years I have lost my son and wife to death, I’m getting a divorce from the love of my life, I’m suffering from chronic failed back syndrome and will suffer with physical pain the rest of my life and be in abject poverty. I have absolutely nothing to look forward too and I hate waking up everyday. I have the means on hand to take my life this week and I’m going to pick a day that’s meaningful to me. You can only take so much pain and suffering before its time to go!

  65. I hope no one on here will take your life!! I know how painful it can be because I been there. Depressed and so many health problems but I am still here because of the grace of God. He took away my depression although I’m still suffering with pain. It’s not that bad now because He reminds me of the “Comforter” He has placed on the inside of me, He takes care of me! I have joy in the place of depression. I embrace peace in my pain!! I know some of you don’t believe in Him but that’s your choice. I’m just telling you what He has done for me. I was a mess until I fell on my knees and asked Him to please take this pain from depression away! I couldn’t handle it anymore. I was suicidal but chose to go to Him instead! He removed the mental pain that years of going to mental doctors and being on meds.couldn’t. It’s not about me now but I live my life for Him and I feel so much better mentally even though I hurt physically at times!! He helps bare my pain and I go on with a smile knowing one day I will be totally at rest when He decides:)

    • anonymous says:

      God is the one i blame for the problems i have, he made me with brain chemistry so screwed up i can’t control my emotions or properly socialize with others. Screw that guy…

    • Barbara says:

      I have prayed many many times for God to take away my depression and the horrible pain issues I have because of fibromyalgia and arthritis. For years I have prayed for this and healing still hasn’t happened. Life in bed or sitting in recliner is no way to live and that is where I live my life from. When I do go visit someone It is so painful Im in a bad mood the whole time. I don’t want to live like this and don’t see it changing. Pain pills help but docs wont prescribe them much any more. That also should be my choice, not the docs, if I want to take pain pills to help. So since the medical profession refuses to allow us the choices of how to live I dont see how they should tell us how we can die

  66. kavitha says:

    i want to die because i am not getting any jobs y i dont no i searched alot of jobs at last i got a security job and parents sister brother they are feeling that they want to do marriage …………but my life i am not liking just i want to die thats it but not getting dareness…………..

  67. Anonymous says:

    We should always try to prevent suicide if possible

    • Anonymous says:

      I agree in MOST cases, however some people should be allowed to make this choice without being forced to end their lives so painfully.

  68. Rebweb says:

    I’ve tempted suicide many times. The last time I was almost successful. I don’t want to die and I never have. I have gone up therapist, into a psychiatric hospital twice and take a good number of the different kinds of medications. I’ve tried changing my life. I’ve tried everything I can think of. But it stays the same. I know it’s hard to believe but some people (at least i) have bad lives and nothing will ever get better. My life goes against logic. Why do I hang on? Because I want to be a good person. Because I’m still hopeful (is not a good thing, try always failing and everything going wrong, see how that hope feels to you after a while). Mainly because I don’t want to cause any pain. Life is pain, I know. You say if my death causes people pain then there must be people who love you. It’s way more complex than that.

  69. Anonymous says:

    I’d like to die. .because there’s no redemption on this earth for me..only God can redeem me and I can’t find peace or love in this world for me to continue to live.

  70. Tom Hal says:

    I’d like in advance to express gratitude for this site’s owner or allowing a dissenting opinion; I mean no disrespect in my comment to anyone. The author of this article, together with her professional associates, misses the salient points of self determination. Psychologists may draw associations among variables, like the links between divorce and suicidal ideation by gender, or to the extent they work with natural scientists they can help us understand how the physical process of the brain influence behavior and feelings. The problem arises when psychologists then try to impose moral arguments on fundamental biology and individual choice. While I agree that most of us want to live in a culture in which deeply depressed people have resources to explore how to cope with their problems, it would be far better to circumvent those problems in the first place–like unremitting poverty, childhood abuse, or persistent unemployment, as examples.

    Of course, no one can likely eliminate these problems. People have to deal with inevitable life difficulties, and some are not as well equipped as others–or even inclined–to do so. If psychology could offer people a guaranteed way out of their life pains, which seems exceedingly unlikely, then most sufferers would flock to psychologists and suicide rates would plummet. Obviously, what psychology can do is just not sufficient–for very many sufferers. But professional psychology, much like religion in ages past (still?), presumes to judge what decisions are “right” and “wrong.” In this, it oversteps its bounds. Only the individual can decide for her- or himself what life decisions are “right” for her/him, so long as they aren’t immediately endangering others’ survival.

    Worse, professional psychologists then lobby the courts for the power to enforce commitments of other adults, including physical restraining and forced drugging. All in the name of “saving” people–doing what is in others’ best interests. Much like religion in centuries past wielded control over others’ minds and bodies because religion as an institution assumed it knew what was in others’ best interests. In this regard, I think, psychology as a discipline has become the new secular-religion, its courting of the natural sciences and statistical models notwithstanding. It’s noteworthy that even in physical medicine, allopathy, at least, physicians are not the decision makers in life-or-death matters. Physicians provide expert opinions about physiological facts which patients then use to make their own decisions. Yet psychology begs for the power both to decide, based on patients’ beliefs, what constitutes an inability to make “the right” decision, and to act to prevent “wrong” decisions.

    Whether we agree with someone else’s choice to end her or his life ought not to translate into power over that human being where otherwise she/he demonstrates a consistent, clearly articulated will not to continue living. Science doesn’t hold “values.” Humans do. And psychologists abuse their affiliation with cognitive neurosciences to lend legitimacy to their official moral evaluative stance on an ultimately private decision, an egregious infringement on individual autonomy. Thankfully, more and more nations and citizens are recognizing this as a social wrong and are taking legislative steps to correct it.

    Sorry for the long comment. Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone.

    • Dale says:

      Somehow if we do not fit into what the rest of society says we should do or how to act,then we must be fixed. If we do no harm to others or any living thing then do not judge me. I have problems and i choose to live my life in a different way but i do no harm yet i am persecuted. People make my life so miserable that i want to die.

  71. Scott Mence says:

    “Even among people who wanted to die so strongly that they tried to end their life, most ultimately chose to live.”

    Begging the question. Result is not necessarily indicative of a poor initial choice.

    “Yet another important reason to prevent suicide is its obvious finality.”

    Not a reason.

    “Even if their external situation cannot change, their inner world can.”

    ‘Can’ is irrelevant. Without cause to think that it will, falling back on this line of thinking is, in and of itself, the irrational position. Which is how most people think about suicide. I appreciate why this is the case, but please don’t demean the option as irrational just because you don’t like it. Unsupported dogma isn’t going to help people very much.

    If you want to talk seriously about suicide, you could at least try being honest about it – or at least rational.

  72. Anonymous says:

    I too feel like I don’t belong in this world. My life is a mess. That won’t change because I don’t belong here.
    Nothing wrong with going through the exit door. We all die. Why can’t we chose when?

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m sorry you feel that way but if you didn’t belong in this world you wouldn’t be here

  73. Anonymous says:

    I feel sometimes depression has nothing to do with it. You just really seriously whole heartedly want to die. Sometimes with good rationale reasons. Why should I have to exist in a place I hate doing the things I hate doing being around people I hate. I think that’s cruel and inhumane. I truly hate living. There honestly is no reason for me to stick around. Too bad I am to scared to die painfully but I am not afraid of pain. That makes no sense. I guess if I kill myself in a painful way I want to make sure I die. It would be better than hating to wake up everyday. Then think I would be doing the government a favor.

  74. Miserable says:

    People often tell me that suicide is the coward’s way out. I used to hold that belief myself. However, that is not the case. It is not easy to end your own life. There are so many reasons for which people chose life, but for others, none of those reasons are worth living. Maybe some people aren’t just suited for life. Perhaps those people can never truly be happy, and for them, suicide is the only escape from their misery. In extreme cases, perhaps assisted suicide for mental illness would be a blessing. I’m thinking now, that I am one of those people.

    • Scott M says:

      Yeah, it annoys me when people fall back on that woefully deceptive adage. Suicide takes courage, and what’s worse, I actually feel even more worthless for not having the courage to bring it all to an end.

    • Anonymous says:

      I feel the same way. ..friend.

    • minworkshop says:

      Instead of sucide, why does God keep the people who are in so much pain alive when he let’s people who are doing great things in this world die? I want to believe in God and his watching over me, but I have been in emotional pain and now physical pain since I was a child. I have nothing to live for. Why am I still here? I dont want to commit sucide as I might fail and make the situation worse, so why doesn’t God see how I feel and let someone who is full of life live and let me go to wherever. Purgatory or heaven hopefully.

    • Anonymous says:

      I am certain I want to die life is unbearable I just want to be at rest

    • HollowLife says:

      To Scott M.(Yeah, it annoys me when people fall back on that woefully deceptive adage. Suicide takes courage, and what’s worse, I actually feel even more worthless for not having the courage to bring it all to an end.) >>> Life is sweet in it’s bitterness and the entire life is courageous in living, in being – not in dying. Mind belongs to life as god’s made conditions to sustain existence while life feeds on life. Mind can never develop courage to end itself and not even death can end it, it will rearrange itself back to conditions and still maintain it’s being, it’s personality. Mind is vision, being and becoming, and jumps from life to life and always caries the essence of life and the ME, the EGO. As to my understanding life is semi/conscious and mostly unconscious, but man has the conscious/capacity to deconstruct conditions and actually go beyond mind and god. Knowing the facts that I am a puppet to conditions to slave for life’s purpose and work myself out for the conditions of being and be a breeding stock, is very tiresome. All senses are life’s conditions for the purpose of reproduction while life maintains it’s beauties and charms to attract and distract the mind and slave to being a ‘mammy or a daddy,’ and think that I am somebody…this is actually the deception that unperceived forces impose on every being and keep them in shackles and slavery. You can see it out of your window or when you go to church, the sensual attraction steer the mind and keeps it in bondage just for a fleeting satisfaction that can also bring troubles and miseries. The facts of nature always tries to beautify itself and that death and ugliness are always being hidden beneath the beauties and charms. life and mind will not let me rest but knowing the facts of slavery will lift some of my burdens and as I contemplate over them daily, and seeing myself deteriorating, the grip of attraction will be loosen… also knowing that all of these have no basis but lead to suffering and death, mind will be dissatisfied and eventually will annihilate itself. Finally the mind will disintegrate from being and gain freedom from all conditions of being and becoming. Just making sure that there’s nothing left to hold me back and everything is thrown to the winds, then beyond doubt there’s no self in it, just conditions which have appeared by life and will disappear by death. When this becomes ingrained in me deeply, life and death looses their integration and personality and mind goes beyond thought. A spark of mind can blow off the entire existence and disappear from time altogether. This is meant that before time begun the timeless will reveal itself to all existence as eternity and that life and death are only shadows. Just a game that whosoever finds ways to stop, disappears beyond time into eternity. I haven’t wash now for a long time and start to stink and I perceive with mind the mind that is unwilling to find satisfaction anywhere, always outrageous and complains, and be sure that others will complain because of you and vice versa. This is the life’s miseries and also of death’s. How can this mind find peace in death? surely not even god’s are able to to find peace within themselves. This mind needs to be slapped upside the head or taken to the forest and tied it up with a rope and still wont remain there, how can it remain in the grave? Train it, kill it every day little by little until it’s visions knowledge and hopes blur up. Don’t listen to the doctors when they are telling you where the problem is…don’t listen to clergy for any stupid hopes, don’t listen to you family for kindness and lovey/dovey assistance…push god and all god’s aside and see if you can, what’s really happening with you. You are the source and also it’s cure. Think for yourself and by yourself until mind disappears. Get lost as far as you can and never look back. Extinguish yourself and dissolve into eternity – That’s the only purpose to being alive, to relocate eternity……..Why suffer for this conjured up and deteriorating life? Think and discard all you can discard until you are feather/light…..

    • Ted N says:

      I feel the same way you all do.

  75. Jason H says:

    I was infected with HIV at age 8 from dirty medical blood. My entire life I have had to come up with $28,000 a year for one pill. I’ve spent $500k out of pocket. More than anything.. I’m tired of being blamed for a nanovirus. I’m tired of people in Christian churches trying to kill me because of a nanovirus. I’m tired of being a slave to Big Pharma and our country because of a nanovirus. I will be ending my life not out of medical needs.. but simply to stop being made fun of by asshole Christians.

    • I am a Christian and I will never make fun of you! A Christian church that makes fun of anyone is fake because we are no better then they are. Christ died for all of us and His love is for us all! You hang in there and don’t worry about what others has to say about you. You are beautiful and you are loved. Hold your head up and show all that you are somebody in the eyes of God! His eyes is the only ones that matters anyway, not man. Man will treat you wrong but God loves keeps you strong in the mist of your enemies! REMEMBER… Christian or not, you are somebody and loved by God!!!

    • sydchic says:

      IN my case I have dealt with a catholic mafia of police/doctors you name it-the do gooders I didn’t even invite or want anything to do with, wreck my life and put those i love in the ground the main stand over since 1985 ex church person was for money and young sex—it now had me diagnosed as crazy about the things done to us-the violence/deprivation psychological scars now have me wanting to die-i think it humane.Christians are controlled idiots keep away,they want genocide and to use up anything they think worthy or sinners-to them its your fault.

    • JannaG says:

      I am a Christian too, and I also would never make fun of you! I have high risk hpv – not from sleeping around – but from being physically intimate while married. I found out after being divorced for several years, during which time I was abstinent. Many women have this, but I was unfortunate enough to have my body not suppress the virus. This resulted in a complete hysterectomy to avoid cervical cancer. Some people are very ignorant, wanting to believe that doing the right things will always protect you from STDs and other forms of harm. That being said, I’ve met wonderful Christians who are more open minded. I have no doubt that Christ himself is very angry with the asshole Christians. I look forward to the day when He has a word or two or more to say to those people to put them in their place. I hope that you are able to meet nicer people in this world. We are out there.

  76. Alexis says:

    Saying “suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem” is misleading and wrong. Some people, such as myself, have depression built into our brains; no amount of therapy, medication, counseling, or intervention can keep the suffering at bay. It is a permanent problem, and we have no idea what specifically causes depression, or how to resolve it. Live with suicidal depression your entire adult life, receiving no benefit from any sort of treatment, and then tell me it’s a “temporary problem.”

  77. California says:

    As good as that sounds, it’s a bit of a fantasy

  78. Dipu says:

    Hi All, Those who are depressed in life and want to commit suicide but cant do so then lets meet and leave our cities and go somewhere else away where we can share and care.

  79. nor says:

    You know what I hate? “Call 911! Remove tools of suicide! Don’t let her/him die!” . Will you live a life for that person? Will you bear his/her pain for them? If this person suffered something that made him/her so in pain can you erase this happening? The answer is ‘no’ you wont, no you can’t. If somebody is in distress it’s right to help but lack of respect of somebodys will to die is not right. There are fates far worse than death itself. I wish everybody beautiful lives but I understand that sometimes its just too much.

  80. Junglebeat says:

    The most miserable
    No friends and maybe became schizophrenia
    I don’t like my family as much as I love my friends and now I cannot make friends because I’m a piece of shit who cannot function in the real world
    No one will ever love me that I can love back
    I’m so fucked

  81. Missing jungle says:

    Once I entertained suicdal thoughts in my head it’s never left
    It made more sense to just quit this game called life
    I don’t see the reason because the society don’t give me reason
    It’s likely a miserable life because I’m having problems since a child
    Emotionally and very awkward
    I can’t flow with this society and corporate world. This madness insane life when I’m so different and see life in a different way
    I wish I never live in a city
    I would have been much happier to live with the primitive people in the mountains making my own food or starving
    But having a community
    Which is lacking in this society so much
    Ah life

    What a mess

  82. Anonymous says:

    This is not suicide this is something I want to do!!!!!

  83. Timbo says:

    I don’t understand the vehemence with which the law and “well meaning people” determine that suicide is wrong. What if every single person had an “opt out” button installed on their arm which gently and painlessly lead to their death? Would religion somehow hold us here on earth? What are the benefits to someone being forced to exist on a planet where they’ve decided they don’t want to live? The fact is that most people who experience mental illnesses don’t like the way they’re being treated and can’t understand why they’re blamed for the way they can’t help thinking. If this world was more accepting maybe people wouldn’t want to opt out due to being completely misunderstood but that’s not where things are at, and other people don’t have the right to hold people to compulsorily live on this plane. If a person wants to die they should be allowed to die, full stop, if that’s what they decide. It’s not like they haven’t thought about it, and it’s not like regret isn’t inherent in any attempt at dying.

    • Lucy says:

      Hi Timbo. I think if people had an opt out button they could press there would be two kinds of people, those who press it prematurely without thinking it through (impulsive act) and then those who continue to struggle but feel a sense of calm and peace because they know they have control to push that button anytime they want. Its not the option of an accessible, peaceful way to die that’s the issue but the feeling of control. When a person doesn’t feel in control it can make them feel stressed and frantic. I mean think about it what’s the rush to suicide if you can always press a button? It may give someone the courage to face another day, no rush and maybe the next day you won’t feel like pressing this button. I don’t think people think of suicide because they don’t like the world, they think of suicide because they don’t like their lives, themselves.

    • Tom Hal says:

      Nicely said. Agreed.

  84. Dan says:

    Yesterday was my birthday. I had dozens of calls and messages from well-wishers, and my wife decorated the whole house and cooked me an amazing meal. And I thought, “why do people have to make my life so difficult and create all this extra work on my birthday of all days?”

    I’ve felt this way for 20 years. Tell me again why suicide is not rational?

  85. R says:

    I am the R of the previous comment, and after hearing all of your pain, I just want to tell you that I love you all. I am sorry that the burdens you carry are so heavy. I wish I could take them away from each and every one of you. I know that many of you are to tired too try anymore, and believe me, I get that. Life can be so beautiful and so terrible at the same time, and the only thing that gives any of it meaning is love. Even if you have no one else who loves you, I do, and if you do decide that the pain is unbearable, know that there is at least one person out there who does not judge you.

    • I agree with you “R”. Everyone here is loved by me but more by God! It grieves my heart to know they want to end their life. However, I have been there but I think God that He helped me to see that life is worth living if I live it for Him, not man or myself! Since I put Him in charge of my life, what once was ugly because of my depression is now beautiful because of God! I live my life for Him now and do that which is pleasing to Him. I am much happier because He gives me joy inside when times are hard. He let’s me know that everything will be alright because He has brought me out of darkness. I walk in the light now and peace follows me instead of the pain that use to. You see, years of mental hospitals wasn’t my answer, God was!!!

  86. Randeep says:

    Suicide is good…i also want to do suicide..but cant find any good easy way to kill my self…i want to die bcoz in my area I’m the only person who don’t have good house,i live in area there 80 house total and only my house is look like shit,bcoz its made of bamboos and shit of cow,its very old house…when rain comes there are water all over in my house…every where is water…i can’t sleep in night,bcoz of water and rain… I’m soo poor….all other 79 house owner and there child see me and my house always laugh at me…alwasy make joke of my house…i don’t have money to make new house…i fear of rain…why god sent me to this poor family…i wish my father sleep early that night …my father is havy drinker…i don’t like him…even my mother also don’t like me…nobody in the world care fore me,(and i dont want anyone to love me)i don’t no why a shit(u called god) send me to this earth

  87. Anonymous says:

    no because I am black in America I would much rather die than hear how everyone hates me to add insult to injury I am also bipolar2 what do I do in a city I can’t escape but won’t hire me and wants me dead lifes not awesome for A Black female in Milwaukee wisconsin I just want to die but the law doesn’t allow it but if I angered a cop he could kill me and not even lose his job I just don’t want to feel pain White people can have this world as far as I care.

  88. Anonymous says:

    You say that you wished you’d died as a child but now you have a family Jesus I am in actual pain 24/7 due to a condition I generated in my body whilst raising money for kids with cancer. You know everybody helps them young/old, but I’ve lost all my friends, I can’t work so I sit in my armchair & watch the television 24/7 knowing full well if I start anything I’ll end up in pain. Yes I am on morphine it does fuck all except makes me constipated & I can’t get it up I am covered in scars & taken endless overdose but I am still here

  89. Anonymous says:

    Eventually, my ability to tolerate my own pain and suffering will surpass my ability to tolerate my concern for leaving behind those who care for me.

    At 41, I have struggled with Major Depression since I was 17; the best explanation I am given is that this truly is a chemical imbalance. I’ve never experimented with drugs and I rarely drink, a few glasses of wine a year during dinner parties or special occasions.

    I am educated, high-functioning, and generally have a job that I enjoy. At five years, it’s a job I’ve been at for the longest time in a while. I have had success with medication and therapy, but severe episodes reoccur, lasting a few months, or up to two years.

    I am fully aware that things can and do get better for a time. However, it is a repeated traumatic experience to enter into a period of remission feeling strong, celebrating your strength and endurance but there is always (always!) concern of a potential and unexplained relapse into an acute episode.

    I am an advocate for treatment, but even during remission I consider how many more times can I handle feeling like everything is always at risk if/when another episode comes on.

    • Lucy says:

      No pleasure without pain, no success without any failure, no such thing as a constant state of pain nor a constant state of happiness.

    • FFSL says:

      No Lucy, pleasure is quite possible without pain, and happiness is quite possible without depressive episodes, as evidenced by the many people who go through life without depression. I assume you’re one of them, or you’d be showing more understanding and wouldn’t be handing out trite sayings to suffering people.

  90. Anonymous says:

    >an irrevocable act
    So what?
    I have made peace with my death.
    Once one embraces the inevitable, death seems trivial, a mere link in a huge chain of events that leads nowhere.

  91. Tristan says:

    Hi my name is T … I have been very depressed since I was a kid ( I have also been stuck in a dream/ delusion to),
    I’ve been through traumatic events that have put me in a bad mental state and
    Ive been very depressed most of my life. I have tried to commit suicide probably 10+ times and almost attempted it probably 30+ times, some days I hate life so much I just want to die but i wouldn’t be able to hurt my family and other people who have helped for all they have done for me. Lifes very intolerable sometimes, I Want to die on a daily basis. But what’s weird is I love life. But I hate me,my mistakes, the pain I cause and so much more. I try so hard to work but I can’t/couldn’t keep a job… Sometimes I wish I would die by a random accident, I do love life but I hate people (not all people though)… I love this earth, the animals, the fish, I love nature. I believe in God but I feel he would of helped me if he was really there for me ( but maybe he is and that’s why I’m still here! I do have some faith!). I always feel like I’m destined for something big.. Like changing this world… Yea I just got off topic a little bit aha …
    Well I think assisted suicide should be allowed but what if they’re just having a bad day/ going through a stressful rough patch in there life. It could and probably will get better so why throw it away when things/your life could make a 100% turn around and you could be living on a mountain peak and not hiding in a limestone cavern in your mind.
    Ya a little off topic …

    • Lucy says:

      I understand you when you say you don’t hate life. Its not a contradiction. One can see that there is glory, beauty, wonder and love in life but feel divorced from it in ones own life.

  92. Amir says:

    Hi everyone
    im the guy who shared his dark destiney a few weeks back and told you about my life i really thank you all for your love and support it means alot to me before i die i wanted u to know that i really care about you and your pain and wish to talk to you today im on a bus currently talking to one of the friends here he said he joined the war because of his family because when he dies they give the cut to his family hes 18 and so young i feel so sorry for him of how he got here but its iran what can we do im doing this because when we cross that bridge i dont think any phones are allowed in the zone now when i was reading ur comments i read a reply and what you wrote my friend is really shameful and wrong how the hell do you compare the jewish in ww2 and the life in iran first of all your little saying is wrong because ww2 was many years back man how do you compare the poisned lifehoods today to backthen?! And yes if you mean war yeah i saw a ww againts my country when sadam attacked iran and how he was supported by the us and hilary clinton also confirmed that as well yeah people died of hunger and war getting their legs chopped off like sheeps the result of walking on the mines so that they clear path u see i saw a very different side of war i saw how a kid carried 5 grendages with him and run right under a tank and destroys it because of his fellows to save them a 12 years old kid and how does this one sound a guy carrying explosives with his team mates through enemy grounds aimed to destroy their base but the explosives get busted but they are sneaking their way to the enemys base so if he shouts of pain his teammates will be caught and killed and the opertaion failed so guess what he burns with the explosives on his back not even saying a word and burns to death with a cruel silent while his friends watch him burn quietly and progress through the base u see we did the impossible without the world noticing it but now my goverment just lost it and they turned into killers and freaks but backthen it WAS better because if u had a univercity degree back then u could get a job at least and dont participate in war get away from it but now u cant run from anything cant us see? The Roots of the life tree of human beings is so poisned now adays so that they feel so much that they wanna die that wasnt an easy thing back then not like now And Jesus christ,!! How do you even say my destiney doesnt help others ?! Havent u read anybooks? Of how life changed and turned over knowning another destiney what age are you living in man? I wrote that comment about my life so that the lost who lost everything doesnt feel alone i wrote that because a child who is having a cancer doesnt think that heorshe has the worst fate in the world and aboveall my story is the same for thousands of poor folks who suffered the same so im here today so that this poinsned pile of junk u call the world today hears our voice that we are not lost even if we die the world must know so that one they one goddamn day a person might show up on a doorsstep and save a poor kids life the savior i never had thats why im telling this and it is Helping thousands people and save their lives and never talk about a persons life so delibrately while u even dont know what truely war is or living in a pile of poison like iran for i have tasted both here do you think people getting chopped off the streets and dead by the terro is not war plus that 8 years that thousands and thousands of our youth died because they wanted to keep a safe and guarded iran my sad life comforts thousands who read it and feel the same with every heart that feels that way my own heart is fufiled with joy and terror

  93. Anonymous says:

    I think I should have killed myself when I tried it at 13. Now I have kids and when it happens they will be hurt for life. Our I can make it look accidental. I’m thinking I’ll do the cops a favor and let them murder me some day.

  94. Anonymous says:

    Yes it should be permitted. Let me die. I want to go.

  95. Ashutosh Arora says:

    most of the readers might not agree with me, but I firmly believe in destiny, and suicide is just one of the instruments to end life. If it has to end, it will, the process of the end might be different in every case (it could be illness, murder, accident or some other way also). It is not in our hands to kill ourselves or someone else. We un-necessarily give importance to ourselves, and consider ourselves the reason of everything that is occurring around us. If it had been so, life would have been completely different and a complete mess, where everything would be happening according to our wishes. Thankfully, it’s not like that.

  96. Anonymous says:

    I don’t have even the luxury to permit myself to die, though it is the only thing I deeply desire. What I am is just an acting live creature, which is way harder than being dead.

    • Ron Bennett says:

      I am the same way to but I can’t. My wife has no money. My disability check, isn’t much, but it would be better than nothing for her. Suffered from depression all my life, and it’s getting worse. Had all kinds of therapy, it helped for awhile, But now I’m getting back to feeling the same as before, and I don’t have the strength to pull myself back up again.
      I probably would do it, if my wife were provided for.

  97. caedus14 says:

    I think suicide should be legal and made available to those who want to end their lives. At the end of the day, it’s my life. I can take it if I choose. All that making it legal will do is reduce the mess and the number of other people that might be hurt by my taking my own life. If there was a quick and sure-fire way for me to die, I would take it this instant.

  98. R says:

    I have suffered intense, chronic debilitating pain for many, many years. My fibromyalgia is one of the worst cases my doctor has ever seen. At best, it feels like a really bad flu, with my entire body aching and tired. At worst it is so unbearable that it takes my breath away. I struggle just to cope with the pain for one full minute as it consumes my consciousness, and then after that moment, it is a struggle just to make it through the next minute. Most days the pain is on par with child birth or kidney stones. Needless to say, I am disabled, I lost my beloved job as a philosophy professor, and there is little that I can give to the world in this state. I hardly sleep, but the worst moment is when I wake up and realize that I have to do another day of this unending torture. In the midst of this, reading Eckhart Tolle, I found a way to surrender and even have experienced moments of joy amidst the pain. I am not depressed, which is truly a miracle in itself. I have learned that with so much physical suffering, I cannot afford to add any mental suffering to that, so I never ask ‘why me?’ and I choose minute by minute to surrender to my pain, rather than resist what is. But, if I could have one wish fulfilled (besides magically waking up completely cured), it would be that I could die tomorrow. I stay for my loved ones, but no one who does not experience chronic pain to this degree will be able to understand what a sacrifice that truly is for me, how it takes everything I have, and how I do it for love, and love alone.

    I am sorry, but I disagree with you that suicide is never appropriate. I believe that many suicides, particularly those caused by mental illness alone might eventually improve, and those people might be happy that they didn’t end it. But there are people with on-going intolerable pain that will not go away but will also not kill them. When this inexorable pain is accompanied with decent mental health, I can see a person being able to make a rational, non-impulsive decision to end their life on their own terms.

    It is tempting for those who do have full, healthy lives with occasional trials to think, “I have dealt with my trials and life has been worth it,” and impose that thinking on others. But that is a mistake: it is one thing to go through intense pain for a short period of time (think a broken bone or child birth); this can be dealt with and when it is over, the pain is often forgotten. It is another thing to go through the same level of pain for months and years. All of the reserves one has for coping with pain get depleted and the unrelenting nature of the pain, together with the loneliness and disability, begin to destroy all meaning in life. Rather than judge people in this condition, realize that, having not endured the same thing, you are not in a position to judge what is best for such individuals. It is not appropriate to say that it is better for them to live than to die, since you have no way of knowing what they are going through.

  99. Anon says:

    My reason being for not wanting to sustain this life is my cognitive and mental aptitude. I have learning differences. I struggle everyday. I may be able to comprehend several concrete and abstract concepts. My speed of process and memory are piss poor. I can not remember events that pertain to my own life or facts. I make errors in every day. I have relentless issues holding down entry level jobs. Due to my working memory. Growing up I had goals and I was able to fulfill some of those. I continued on with education after high school. After earning my bachelor’s degree I have struggled with the real world. I can’t see myself having a family. Which is anothe goal I had. I have had to rely on my family and boyfriend for financial resources on and off throughout the past 5 years. I am a royal pain in the ass. I know that as I age I will deal with a degenerative mind. I have lost contact with other family and friends. Everyday I deal with not being able to retrieve information. My self-confidence and self-value is low. I’m almost 30 and my mind set is poor. I would rather not live another day feeling this way than to continue to exist knowing my life will more than likely never meet my goals.

    • Lucy says:

      And so with all of that try and have some compassion for yourself as I’m sure you would if it were another telling your story. Show yourself a little compassion. Its not to say you should make on decision or another no, what it means is that instead of beating yourself up for your lack of ability or lack of accomplishment, give yourself a little care. Its not always easy to be objective about subjective pain but think of how you would feel towards another who is saying what you’re saying and then give yourself the same consideration you would give them, which is the feeling of empathy and that leads to compassion.

  100. Anonymous says:

    No. I think it is a very personal decision and everyone has the right to make the choice between life and death for themselves. It can and would be for me a very rational decision. I have decided if I were to do it, I would be absolutely sober, and honestly I don’t care if it hurts or not. Living hurts, I expect dying to hurt as well. No big deal.

  101. 9,000 children under five years of age die daily from hunger.

    They want to live, they haven’t yet learned the “struggles” of our modern 21st century life, they haven’t yet been poisoned by the virus of adulthood.

    If you can’t see a reason to live, maybe the reason is that you position yourself as a center of the universe. If you stop seeing the world in this way, in the way media and teachers teach you to see it, maybe you ultimately see many more reasons to live than yo die…
    (Quoted from the University of Solitude)


    • Lucy says:

      Angie everyone’s life is the center of their existence. Its through ones own life that we experience the world around us. Its through our own life that we interpret the world around us, so for you to bring up hungry children or suggest that one is being self-centered is completely irrelevant and indeed I would say unhelpful.

    • Tom Hal says:

      Angie, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean to be constructive in your comment. Maybe I’m misreading it, and you’re just quoting someone else and mean to make a counter-argument. But in essence, the last paragraph comes across as condescending and gelid. Would you actually type to someone vulnerable enough to share that he/she sees no reason to live that he/she is self-centered? And then would you really then go on to tell her/him how to think and live? It’s hard for me to believe any adult, possessed of her own worldview and entitled to her own free thoughts to assess life and conclude about values, would then tell another equally free-thinking adult what is right for her or him, especially when there is no objectively true substance underneath any judgement about value.

  102. Anonymous says:

    My life is like a slave since born, I wanted to die …

  103. DC says:

    No matter who you are. I want you to know that you all are beautiful. God loves you and you are special. I wish I could hug all of you and listen to whatever is that troubles you and help you find a solution to the madness occupying your minds.

    If you’re reading, I’m asking God to stir your hearts with a peace that will surpass your understanding and a love that is unwavering. May he spark a change in your heart!

    I love you. He loves you!

  104. Anonymous says:

    You are just casually ignoring the other 10% who still wish to die even after there first attempt, such as myself. Why let them continue suffering for no good reason?

    • Anonymous says:

      Very good point IMHO – after all not everyone is completely lost in their heads …

    • TheTodd says:

      Because even if you are still wanting to die after your first attempt, it’s still no guarantee you will always be miserable and want to die, no matter how much you think it is. Notice what was actually said in the statistic above: that 90% of people who survive a suicide don’t die of suicide later. It doesn’t say they immediately decide that life is worthwhile, for many it still takes some time and life changes. So you may not even be one of the 10%.

    • Anonymous says:

      I do believe every suffering has a purpose. Can you read – try reading The Light Between Us – I think it might help you.

    • Tom Hal says:

      TheTodd, I don’t know if you’ll return to read comments to yours, but you touched upon something I think is critical to the dialogue on self determination. I think the discussion on people deciding to terminate their own lives suffers from several reasoning flaws. It’s as if because suicide would be the permanent cessation of life, and further, because most of us very much want to remain alive, we generally conclude that others should remain alive–or rather that these two facts justify intervening where other adults’ decisions to end their lives are concerned. But I don’t think permanence is a sufficient criterion to justify preventing an action. We make decisions every day that preclude other decisions. That seems to me just a fact of human existence. Few would counsel someone extremely unhappy with a marriage over a long time to stick it out just because a divorce might be an irrevocable split. There’s also a possibility that deeply unhappy marriages will find happiness again, but we respect people’s freedom to decide whether they wish to continue relationships. I think we should afford people the same freedom regarding their relationships with themselves.

      I also believe the so-called sanctity of life (or reverence for life) is quite a charade. We may value our own lives deeply and those of others we care about, but clearly, from the way we build our society, we do not value every human life. Life-value is neither an objective fact nor a universally held value. We have no business deciding that others should value life as we happen to–indeed, we have no business deciding for others what values they ought to hold.

      Neither the permanence of death (inevitable, anyhow) nor the frequency of the qualified value of life (our own and those of people we happen to value) is a sufficient condition to justify imposing our will on others.

  105. Pushed says:

    If a person wants to die, it’s their choice. Sometimes it’s their only choice. Most people look down on suicides, naming it shameful, selfish, stupid, regrettable, maddening, ect. Sometimes you just have to do it. I brought these problems upon some. I have to rid of it.

  106. Robbie says:

    I’ve been in so much emotional pain and I want to die. It’s very hard to explain. I’m completely aware of EVERYTHING. Sometimes I feel like that’s part of my desire to give up. Honestly I’ve already given up inside, I just have my dogs that I can’t leave. They don’t deserve to have their lives changed because I’m a little bitch. I don’t feel like oh I want to kill myself,look at me. I feel like I’m done. My heart has so much regret, sorrow and grief inside that I wake up crying. I have tears pouring down my face right now. I have zero desire for anything in life. I only get out of bed when I have to. I used to think sunrises were beautiful now they literally haunt me because I feel like it’s another day in this pain. I wish there were a magic cure to stop the feelings I have. The ironic thing is I used to tell people “look at how people live in the rest of the world, I bet 70% of humans don’t even have a mattress to sleep on” and quite honestly I didn’t understand depression. I got mad at people that have so much while some people live their whole lives in hunger. Little did I know I would be right here not having a clue how to live without waking up crying from nightmares, falling apart in the store, driving down the road screaming at the top of my lungs. Why does suicide have to be such a bad thing? Why can’t we celebrate someone being released from the pain they are suffering from? Mental, emotional, physical? I’m 45 and my knees are shot. They hurt every day,every step but they don’t compare to the burning pain in my heart.

    • Anonymous says:

      Fuck, Robbie. I’m with you on that. Wonder if there’s any way we can help each other…

  107. random aspie says:

    I have been seeking help in the state of Oregon. There have been federal lawsuits and rulings about the lack of treatment option outside of being commited. People wait so long for help that they deteriorate. I will not go through with that. The last time I was under physically unable to leave a place I was sexually and physically tortured for being the son of Pagan parents and reminded constantly “when you die you’re going to burn in hell”. Since then if a man puts their hands on me I put them down so hard they don’t get back up. For the safety of others I can’t be in anyones custody and will disappear to the woods if I believe that is likely to happen. However the soonest I could even get an appointment for neurological testing is next year. I have brain damage from a car wreck and can’t remember things long enough to remember what I came in the room for. I can’t focus on anything for more in a minute or two. I can’t control my panic attacks. I need help but it’s not available unless I commit myself. I can’t just see a doctor and go home to my own bed. I also can’t work. I want to die now. The only way to end my pain would be suicide because the help is not available. I’ve asked so many doctors for help but they can’t find it for me. For me suicide is only logical. I’ve been trying to get help, am continuing to look for help. Unless there is a doctor who can get me in and get me in for testing there is nothing I want to hear….. I don’t want sympathy, at this point it’s just insulting. I need a doctor with an opening in their schedule and that doesn’t exist…. I’m on waiting lists to get an appointment….. That’s not a joke… They have waiting lists because there just isn’t an opening as far as they can schedule ahead. The list is for when they start making the schedule that far out…. I can’t even get a date but I know that their current schedule is booked for the year…. If I can’t get help the next option is suicide…. It’s not something I come to in sorrow. The system failed me and I need the pain to stop. There’s just no help left to seek.

  108. Anonymous says:

    I’m fixing to do it. I physically can’t take anymore. As if abusive marriage wasn’t enough I’m loosing everything. Car house animals money. Life is just more than I can bare. No one cares. No one helps. There isn’t anyone there whose life is going to change if I’m gone or not. I’m so sorry for my kids but I have failed them miserably anyway. I don’t see how this is any different than assisted suicide BC you can’t take cancer anymore. I no longer can carry this burden. This weight. I’ve prayed I’ve begged. God could have helped me out a little but 42 years worth of suffering just isn’t good enough for him to be satisfied. I will. Not say anything as I don’t want to be stopped. I hope God forgives me BC he’s def forsaken me

    • Lucy says:

      Well it would change the life for everyone who knew you but especially your children and your animals. They are the ones who would hurt the most. I’m sorry for your pain as much as I’m sorry for my own.

  109. Martyn says:

    Hi everyone I have Multiple Sclerosis and am in constant pain.I have prayed to die in my sleep almost every night
    since early 2001.Life is extremely difficult and I feel my spirit fading every day.

    • Reem says:

      i wish you peace and i don’t know if it matters but i care about you and i hope you find happiness

  110. SuchIsLife says:

    “Permanent solution to a temporary problem” huh? I don’t know about that. I see it more as a permanent solution to a permanent problem, at least for me. It really depends on the individual situation, but there is simply no hope for some people. I deserve to die, not because I was bullied as a kid or something like that. (Which by the way, I’ve gone through that, and it is really not as bad as people make it out to be). I’ve committed horrible crimes in my life. Crimes that, if anyone found out about, they wouldn’t want to be in the same room as me. I deserve to die, so let people like me at least make one good decision in our lives and kill ourselves.

    • Reem says:

      or find redemption through good deeds and create something good in this world to replace the bad.I know this sounds awfully cheesy and if you knew me it’s extremely uncharacteristic for me to say this but i did horrible stuff too and what keeps me going is the fact that it’s my duty to correct them and repent and spread light instead of darkness.Forgiving yourself is difficult maybe even impossible ,trust me i know, but all we can do is try.

  111. Anonymous says:

    Due to an auto accident, it broke my back in two places, caused nerve damage in my back and along the left side of my body.my brain was damaged too. The doctors I’ve seen have told me that everything will degrade over time.
    The accident was in 2003, and ive degraded quite a bit. I get lost going to and from familiar places, my short term memory has gotten a lot worse. Within a few years I won’t be able to care for myself. I do not under any circumstances want to be put in a home and linger for who knows how long. I don’t want someone to have to clean me when I soil myself nor have to feed me when my hands shake so much I cannot feed myself. My wife is divorcing me due to these issues I have and none of my kids live close enough to leech off of them.
    Ive decided when I get to the point where caring for myself is really difficult I’ll end my life.
    I’ve already made my funeral arrangements and have paid for it. My will is in order, power of attorney and durable power of attorney and living will are all in order.
    I’ll withdraw all my cash and put it in my safe so my kids won’t have to fight with the bank to get any money.
    I’ll go on my terms.

  112. foreigner says:

    i can’t see people’s eyes it’s hard to breath everyday

  113. Roger D. Miller says:

    I think it’s amazing that everyone doesn’t commit suicide, given that life ends in irrevocable death anyway, and that life is nothing but pain and disappointment. Even those who are fortunate end up dead and dying is almost always an awful way to go. Our world is anathema to life and we blithely dance around as if it isn’t so…

  114. Anonymous says:

    I just want to die… I don’t like hearing people talk I don’t like going outside, I try to fit in and hang out with people but when I think it goes really well they never get a hold of me or when I try they never can hangout… I am a freak! I’ve been having a hard time holding down a job, and ive been just trying to succeed, but I always fail. I think I’m in my own world and do t even know it… I don’t know how to be like everyone else… I just can’t take it. have you ever lived in a place where you can’t talk to anyone? have anyone? even your own mother hates you and says your annoying and that she wishes you would leave her alone? I don’t have anything or anyone… I don’t want to do something crazy and try to kill myself in some horrible way like running into a woodchipper… but I’ve tried with pills multiple times.. and I feel like I’ve gotten close. I’ve turned all white for a good half of the day… I should be dead. I hurt everyday I’ve went to therapy and shrinks… nothing works, it’s just what’s inside. it’s in my heart… it’s love, it’s tearing me apart like a hot iron falling out of my body as I try to keep it inside.

    • Anonymous says:

      Who knows if you will see this, person on the internet. I know what it is like, to sit in a room, a bar, a concert venue, an office filled with people, and to feel alone. Disconnection and disappointment, each and every time. I won’t tell you there is always hope, or that you are not alone. You aren’t, everyone feels lonely, hopeless, pointless, but it’s useless to use that as a reason to not be unhappy, because the pain remains. You aren’t a freak, that much is certain (unless you like to mutilate animals and show the pictures to people in public or some similar ridiculous thing).

      Life is nothing but a long series of suffering. This is the unhappy truth, that as long as you breath you will suffer. I too would welcome death, but to you I say this: don’t die yet. Eventually you will die, one way or another, but don’t fight your instinct to survive. Life is pointless, there is no reason to live; because of this, nothing is truly required of you. So just survive, like everyone else does. In the end, nothing truly makes the pain go away, at most you forget about it for a while until it comes back, so don’t bother trying to make it go away by meeting new people or doing new things in a desperate attempt to find happiness. You won’t, you’re better off just drinking the pain away. Instead, just live, if you want to sleep then sleep, if you don’t want to go outside then don’t do it, if people annoy you they are likely not people you want to deal with.

      We are all told that we must be something, we have to create something, find success and be remembered. But in the end, no one will ultimately remember us. Sure, a few dozen humans will last through history and be remembered, but they are dead now and certainly don’t care. And anyway, in a billion years or so the sun will expand and engulf the earth, and every record of humanity will be erased. Even if there is still someone around after that to remember us, eventually all matter in the universe will disintegrate into nothing but radiation, and eventually even that will go cold and die. So in the end there is no reason to care, none of this matters.

      Don’t die yet. Eventually you will get your release from the pain, even if it takes a long time. Just live for now, and know that everyone is either living the same Hell you are, or otherwise is too stupid or delusional to recognize it. Understand that pain is natural and inevitable, and drop the anxiety of trying to accomplish things. I wish I could reach out and lend you a hand, to let you know you are not alone, to share in the solidarity of pain.

      In the end, one way or another, we are all screaming for death while or minds try to tear free from our skulls.

    • Nicky says:

      Hang on in there…just keep breathing…people should cherish the young…you must cherish yourself xxxx

    • Lucy says:

      The answer is yes. I too have a mother who thinks I’m the bane of her very existence. I too have no friends around with whom I feel safe talking to. I also try and avoid others. I too have always had a difficult time holding down a job and seem to fail myself all to often. I too went to therapy and psychiatrists but it didn’t help me help myself. It may sound strange but there are many of us.

  115. You never see websites that do not stick-in a “caveat” to suicide- some people suffer the full force of human evil and treachery- and everyone makes the mistake that they are separate from the evil done to them. occasional there are good people who will descend and observe this truth of human cruelty and hatred of itself. I not only think suicide is rational- but I think a nuclear global exchange is perfectly rational- Humanity is far outweighed by human nastiness. I was the most optimistic and resolute believer- no longer- I experienced the worst imaginable set of circumstances first hand- Optimism is a threat to human ego that has gotten used to the slavery by the very few manipulators and liars- a species that does not discriminate the most foul in our species from the majority of honest strivers- the few that poison and make life miserable for the majority and we let them do it- until we turn just as mad. My advice- commit suicide.

  116. Anonymous says:

    I believe I should be able to choose when I die. I believe physicians should be allowed to provide the medication. Mental illness is terminal. People may have a remission, achieve control with medication or ECT but others achieve no relief. I fall into the last category. I have desired a peaceful death for the last 20 years. I need a physician to provide the appropriate medication. It is my life and should be my decision when to end it.

  117. Brent Fisher says:

    Three words: No lives matter. Now that I got that off my chest I have already killed myself on November 12, 2001 and have already figured out the answer. You have the polarity wrong. Suicide is a TEMPORARY solution to a PERMANENT problem. So your life stinks and you want it all to end so you go to the nightstand and pick up the revolver and point it at your head and pull the trigger….yep…the gun jams, the bullet is a dud and the propellant won’t combust or you chicken out before guns even factor in. Now heres the creepy morbid part. YOU experienced a malfunctioning gun. Your PARENTS and friends now have a dead carcass of yourself complete with body piercings by SigSauer complete with clean up bill, not to mention carriying on without a son. In the time when you killed yourself the other people see you die and everybody mourns your death. So it appears like a permanent solution–to THEM. But that doesn’t fix the problem that in the identical universe that supports a survival scenario that you are still ALIVE and SUFFERING, with a lot of ‘book’ /’financial month’ ,etm. to get through. So your suicide solved nothing and also made the people in your original life very sad. Worse if you DID experience the gun actually discharging you are now in a universe that supports more life, but as punishment, you are more damaged, possibly lost sight in one eye, having a sketchy sense of smell, etc. So you killed yourself with the solution of suicide, but you experience continued life which did nothing to solve your problem.

    If you are thinking about killing yourself. DON’T. You will not die and the universe in which you do will make a lot of people sad. It’s a temporary solution, after the gun smoke clears you are still faced with the task of being alive possibly with reduced biological/sensory capabilities. In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics. There is no free lunch. There truly is no way out. It’s just cheaper to stay alive and wait for better weather.

  118. Kasey M Kadinger says:

    If you have a job you hate you terminate it, if you have a marriage you hate you terminate it so if you have a life you hate why not terminate it?

  119. rob says:

    no one should be forced to live.

  120. W. M. says:

    One of my questions concerning this has been. How free are we if we can’t decided our own death? How is the person that only wishes to be free of pain and suffering the selfish one? I myself am only alive because others claim to see value in me. When in reality I’ve reached a point because of my mental illnesses where I’m not allowed to even work. I mostly depend on the kindness of others and feel worse about it everyday. I have not made any real progress in years of treatment and therefore feel that I am a drain on resources that could be used to help someone with potential. I contribute nothing to society other than being a statistic. If I was looked at like an investment, the smart bet would be to say no. Instead because for whatever the reasons I won’t kill myself and will live out my life. In turn most will only remember how sad I was instead of the brief time before all this sunk in that I was a kind and thoughtful person. My legacy will only be a sad story to dissuade others of following my path until even that is forgotten.

  121. tanya says:

    Your article referred to people with “temporary” truama, stresses or what ever the case may be. However have you considered the “invisible fighters” I am talking about people with severe chronic pain the type of people that have tried everything from different specialist (who all just shake their heads and say sorry there is nothing we can do you will need to be on severe pain medication for the rest of your life) to any and all alternative medicine and treatments yet they suffer day in and day out?. Say you have someone who doesn’t suffer from depression in over words they do not have a lack of seratonin or a chemical imbalance. Yet they are depressed because their pain keeps them from living a normal life it keeps them from following their dreams or reaching there potential worst of all it keeps them from caring and loving the people in there life that means everything to them. I have had 5 back operations, 6 abdominal and 5 other operations hand ,head ,knee, theigh … and yet for the last decade I fight every day I lost my job (promising architect) I couldnt do any activities/sport ( got provincial colours) before yet I got married to a extremely supportive husband that knew I would not be able to bare children for 6 different specialists confirmed it. I also have very supportive parents and would probably not have been here to type this if it weren’t for them. Last year I fell pregnant which baffled all the doctors and I carried full term I have a beautiful healthy baby girl. But!!!! My pain wich has always been at a 7-12 out of 10 has increased after birth to unbareable. Plus now I have to take care of my girl and not being able to sometimes just breaks my heart and she deserves better. I was fine with the fact that I won’t be able to have children not because I didn’t want to have but because I would want to give my children all the love and affection they deserve (ironically I against all odds end up having one)…Lets go back to (invisible fighters) Nobody except my parents and my husband knows ,why because I try to keep myself locked away in my house as much as possible and when the time comes where I have no choice but to face other people I literally put on a mask and fake the hell out of it so much so that by the time we leave I have on numerous occasions broke down in tears and even fainted. I have never been the type of person to seek fake pitty or attention I hate it so would rather pretend all is fine even though my eyes are bloodshot and I struggle to even move sometimes from the outside I look normal. So in conclusion I find myself at a point where the pain has destroyed me mentally, physically and emotionally and worst thing about it, it is not temporary like in your article it is chronic never ending and there is nothing, nothing anyone can do about it believe me I have tried. Now read the effects of children growing up with a parent with chronic pain…. so what is worse I have 2 options keep on suffering day in day out to the point where I loose my mind and my family has to deal with all that comes with it the crying, anger, frustration or just end it all? the only reason I haven’t yet is because I am trying to weigh up what is worse for my daughter having to grow up with a mom the way I am now or having to deal with growing up with out knowing me or understanding why I left her. Both will leave her with extreme emotional scars but wich one is worse?

    • A says:

      You have post natal depression. It’s another level of depression. It can be helped with hormone therapy. Your body has dropped hormone levels and they need to be addressed. It’s a different form of anxiety and depression. Hormonal can be treated, easily. Get help now. You won’t even need counselling. You will get better so much sooner and will be able to raise your much-wanted child.
      From Leeds, UK.

    • Anonymous says:

      Your baby girl needs you.

  122. Anonymous says:

    “Oh, but what if it all got better tomorrow?” Aaaannnddd… What if it doesn’t? What if the facts of your external situation mean you’re NEVER going to “feel better inside?” When you have no friends to talk to, no money to go out or do anything – or even make necessary repairs to your home – when EVERY. SINGLE. JOB YOU APPLY FOR gets back with “thanks, but no thanks”, when trying to start your own business doesn’t work, when you’re exhausted and in pain EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. When your family stopped talking to you years ago. When all you can see is another 30-40yrs of agonising misery. When everything works just fine for everyone else, but you try the same things and get nowhere. Funny how the kind of people who know a suicidal person personally, and will say crap like “oh, it’ll get better”, never actually DO anything to MAKE it better. Your suicidal friend has no money to go anywhere? Oh, but it’s just encouraging them to not bother looking too hard for work if you invite them out – even just over to yours to hang out in a different scene – and pick up the tab. You’re in a position to hire someone, for a job your unemployed, suicidal pal could easily do? Yeah, but they’ll just bring everyone else down, won’t they? Best to hire the pretty, bubbly, FUN person you know. Spend a half hour or more actually listening to them? Too much negativity, man! People can’t even be genuinely interested in an answer to “How are you?” that’s anything other than “Fine”, and yet we’re supposed to accept that, somehow, everything will magically “get better”? Yes, some people DO manage to find ways to feel better – great. Good for them. For the rest of us – hurry up with legalising euthanasia. Sorry that someone wanting to die makes you feel uncomfortable – not everyone has people who’ll do things – even little things – that take the edge off of that kind of pain. Some of us just have the pain, and no hope of it ever ending. And the knowledge that, if you ASKED for something that might make you feel better, you’d either be ignored entirely, or told you were being “selfish” or “manipulative.”

    • Brent Fisher says:

      In that event suicide a good solution for the civilization in the original life as there is no longer a burden on the planets resources, finances, and pollution. And they have the brass ones to say that the person taking their own life is ‘Selfish’. Actually he’s taking one for the team, and will be alive in more of the continued torment. Doing a favor for the good of civilization and the earth’s biosphere with the horrible reward of being alive in an identical earth forever until eternity is not the kind of act I would refer to as selfish.

    • Lucy says:

      People use those platitudes because they don’t know what to say and they don’t know how to fix the situation. They are at a loss. Forgive them. The answer is not out there my friend, some people seem to rebalance themselves with intervention and for others it just doesn’t work out. I know this sounds a little harsh but if you cannot fix, heal, recover with or without the help of others then it cannot be done.

    • HollowLife says:

      Anonymous, thanks to the fact that we, at least, as humans, have the will to come to the decision and end our own lives, because other animals can’t. It’s ridiculous for the world/intelligence and their laws to keep people hostages in their suffering because some god or scripture says we can’t die whenever we want even if we are in great suffering and pain…it’s god’s will to decide. See the contradiction that Through this mentality/stipulation humanity has become ill and stiff that if we think about death, is god forbid, Life has become a medical corporation and experiment in beholding suffering and feed the experiment, even though with an overpopulated world, with starvation and inhuman conditions, but instead, we must war, and be left there suffering through mutilations… Our great inheritance and our perfect Self…God/mentality. One has to discourage oneself so completely and see the facts of life that there isn’t any recovery from deterioration suffering and death and therefore, so disgusted with life and self, finds means to extinguish ones conditions. Best regards.

  123. Anon says:

    the families of suicide patients are usually so selfish. Certain suicides are to release god awful physical pain, that one can simply not continue suffering from. Any family member who cant see that should off themselves instead, because wishing for someone else to suffer horrifically for more months or years is a selfish, disgusting prick who doesnt’ deserve the air they breath

  124. Anonymous says:

    I know this was written for people in developed countries, life in a third world country is so hard that i have decided to end my life and not prolong my misery. My only choice is killing myself, nothing is ever going to change in the fucking middle east. I think I have the right to kill myself.

    • Lucy says:

      I don’t personally know the author but I’m sure enough to say this was written for everyone everywhere, and as you can see it has reached everyone everywhere who are struggling with this issue. You’re not alone in the ME or anywhere else. In fact it looks to me as if we are alone together (lol)

  125. Hopeless says:

    P.S. to my previous story. All the money I gamble with is MY own…never my husbands’. But I only get SS and give him $500 a month. But my problem was getting credit cards and racking up the 30k debt.

  126. Hopeless says:

    I am nearly 77 and have been a compulsive gambler for over 20 years. I am now almost 30k in debt and my husband has said he would divorce me if it happened again. I gave him 80k when we married 13 years ago and we have moved 3 times..he gave 20k to pay debts twice…so I now have only 40k but it is in the house that we said would be our last. He thinks I am saving 1k a month and when he finds out that I haven’t…..dooms day. I rather die than go thru his wrath and be put out on the streets. Please don’t ask me about Gamblers Anonymous…been there…horrible, people really bad! I had kidney Cancer 2 years ago and now have one kidney. I think if I drink everyday, it will kill me.

    • Anonymous says:

      Don’t give up hope. I gambled away thousands but just wait. The money will come somehow. Your life is more important.

  127. California says:

    I feel the same way as you do. No matter how hard I’ve worked to be a good person, no matter how much I have loved others, I’ve only been used, abused, and treated like trash. I’m too old, jaded and tired to keep trying. What is the point? I hate people, I hate life. Nothing holds my interest but dying. Knowing i’ll never spend a holiday or birthday, or any special occasion with someone who loves me, or even someone who feigns to care.

  128. Anonymous says:

    So a better option is to live in pain? This article is extremely condescending towards someone who is suicidal because it’s the equivalent of telling someone it will get better with no details as to how. & statistical data does nothing to help one way or the other at least for me because on one side I can think I’m not this person so they don’t know I would regret it & on the other I can think oh my problems are of so little value & common that they are not valid therefore I am not of value & it doesn’t matter if I die either way.

  129. Anonymous says:

    Suicide is absolutely a solution. Making it seem like no good could come from suicide is just ignoring reality. At a certain point, the only way I figure suicide would be a bad choice is if life were to get better by some sort of miracle, which is like saying you’re staying alive through the worst conditions with the worst mental state you can have, but you aren’t killing yourself becuase you might win the lottery and thats the only thing that’ll help. My life isn’t getting any better for the forseeable future, given that I’m stuck with abusive parents, a doctor (that my parents love, btw) who has been useless meds like SSRIs that just make me feel sick, weak, and generally terrible, and I’ve been to 2 mental hospitals for a total of nearly a month inpatient and 4 outpatient, which is enough to make even the most level headed person suicidal as far as I can tell. Going through the infamous alt.suicide.holiday methods list gave me a few ideas, and if all it takes to not have to deal with multiple systems that act like they’re bent on making me suffer is an hour by myself and a small amount of discomfort, I’d absolutely call that a solution. Any time you move towards a better situation is, as I’m sure most would agree, is at the very least progress. Moving from a terrible situation to a completely neutral one, especially after being there for so long, is a good thing to do.

  130. daniel says:

    If a person has something to live for, like a family of their own, then suicide should, at least, be reconsidered. If someone has nothing that makes them happy, has no reason to live, and wants the misery of living a hollow life to end, then they have every right to choose suicide as a solution to a permanent problem. Life isn’t all rainbows and smiles for everyone. For some it is a bottomless chasm of despair.

  131. Anonymous says:

    I laugh when people say “when you get older, you’ll see it was all worth it.” I come back and say “no, it’s not.” It must be nice on that side of life, too bad I’ll never make it there.

  132. Joy says:

    My life, my choice. I grew up abused, physically, sexually, emotionally, abandoned and people have always treated me like garbage not worth their time, to this day. Why bother? I hate people, I hate life. Always have. Why force someone to live miserably for decades? I’ve done so much to be a good person, educate myself, have a career, try to find love and start a family. People just use and abuse me. Don’t wanna deal anymore. Why suffer? It never gets better for me no matter what I do I end up treated like I’m nothing. And maybe I am. So be it. I’m not picking myself up again this time.

    • Sandy says:

      I feel you sweetie. I have been through all you have stated. No matter how well I made others feel, I was the least denominator to all. I’d always feel like I was destine to have a life of “shit”. I was kind hearted without expecting accolades, just only a little appreciation but ultimately, left feeling used and worthless. I’m nearly 60 years old and lost everything less than 10 years ago, because the man who promised to take care of me for life chose drugs and alcohol over me.

      We feel we have a dark cloud over us and no matter what, as I stated before, life turns to “shit”.

      Even good events in life hold little joy – often – if you’re even able to be there when they happen.

      I came to this site because I was looking for an anonymous way out also.

      I tried to “step up” and get a job after being a stay at home mom for 18 plus years. I applied for a cashiers job at a large tourist general store but, because of my age and not having worked for all those years, I was put in charge of “maintaining the restrooms”. I swallowed my pride and accepted the position although I had skills in accounting, management and helped my husband run his custom painting business.

      I cleaned toilets. I, being one who always needs to please because in my mind, that is the way to get love or respect, did above and beyond what was expected of me. Hard, nasty, physical labor that wore me out to the point of bad health…and, at an end, unappreciated.

      There’s much more sadness I could tell you but our story is already sad enough…but, I need to have a glimmer of hope and the part of me who wants to help or be there for someone, I feel, has led me to this forum and you. Maybe I’m a fool, but my heart hurts for you and anyone so sad..

      If I can do anything, even be a sounding board for you, please allow this. Let’s find a way to a meaningful existence.

    • Help says:

      Hey there, you want someone to talk to? I feel exactly like you, exactly.

    • Anonymous says:

      If we ever met I know I’d find many reasons to love you. And I myself want to die.

    • Anonymous says:

      I felt like I wrote this. You & I feel the same way. I feel like I want to die. I am not trying to die, but if I do i do not think i would fight. Just— let me go. i am done with this.

    • W. M. says:

      I cry and smile with understanding. May peace or release find us both.

    • Anonymous says:

      I feel the same.

  133. Pippy says:

    I would be first in line for the doctor that would help me die.

  134. Anne says:

    Suicide for someone with depression absolutely should be allowed. But that should be worked through with just as much thought and care as someone with any other illness – not a spur-of-the-moment thing but a months-long process working with therapists to see if it is something that can be brought. How long is considered temporary even with drugs? When I can say every single day I wake up saying “Dang it not again?” – even on my wedding day which was a happy time for me, and every day of my honeymoon, and on my college graduation day, etc – I can be happy and still be ill. And no – there is no cure. And meds are expensive especially now that so many insurance plans are not willing to cover mental problems. (Aside – did you know that our wonderful govt. declared that victims on 9/11 can get medical care payed by the govt. but it specifically says not mental health care?) How many days/weeks/months/years does it take? Someone with cancer can say after 5 or 10 years that they want to throw in the towel. Someone with “just” depression? It can be more than 30 years, and still considered a “temporary” problem.

  135. Anonymous says:

    Of course not! If you want to die, it’s your choice. Nobody else has any right to stop you, they can obviously help you rethink a decision or if you survive (like me), then prevent you from trying again.

  136. Anonymous says:

    This dos not explain why!!!! So WHY is it when the world is over populated you can not kill your self when your life has no meaning and you don’t want to cos the same pain on a child you might ever have?

  137. amir says:

    Well, from what i read i think some would like to know what going on down here, The worst place on earth guess? Iran The Hell if your an american or european reading this consider your self very lucky even if u have cancer or lost the desire for life let me tell you my story then decide im 31 and living in this shithole from the day i was born no one loved me not even my parents we and my mom all got our asses kicked by my father we always prayed that he never come back but he wouldve came every time always watching porn and harrasing us i have scars on my body that tell from those days i lost two of my fingers once because i called him bastard once then he caught me in the bath and beat me with a 2 meter long iron wire and i still have the scars my eye socket got crashed once while i got my ass beaten by a bunch of whoresons for not giving them my money this place is a hell on earth imagine a place where ever you walk you hear ppl getting raped and killed imagine a place that you cant say what you want imagine a place where your economics crush you like you pay 2,000$(tomans) for a samsung s5 piece of shit imagine a place where you have to sleep with a pain everynight imagine a place where its ppl have no respect for oneanother imagine a place where you can never get out unless your a rich nerd you might call me depressed but trust me im not even though i knew about my family and country i was ambitious in life i never listened to their lies and thought about god i got two computer engineering master degrees i mastered 5 languages french,English,spanish,chineese,japaneese and you know what there is no job for me here and if i want out they no wait a second actually YOU would call me a terrorist while u sit on your ass all day most with an easy job there and talking of death because only u have no desire or a uncureable disease i wouldve enjoyed life until the very last seconds if i were you i would have given all i had to only live in america or europe and yeah i think i wouldve been fine with cancer as long as i can die in country where ppl dont harrass me then i would die GLADLY in peace the school which i spent half of my time as a teenager was a big hell as well a place where the teachers would beat the shit out of you if you talk with out their permission infact not talk just a say a word and see what happens and the thing is they are allowed to do this yes allowed and you get kicked beacuse of low grades , students and you cant just say anything i could never get a girlfriend because every girl i met was so arrogant due to the religious they all think of them selves as gods of beauty and one should just fuck his self for getting one i still remmeber the suffering from my shoes were torn and old and the streets melting as hell i got my feet burned all the time because of that i worked hard 9 hours a day to get the money for my education got my hands like an old hug as the results of working nine hours for 5 years every 4 days a week but i was different i, like many of you loved gaming , pop music , and hollywood celebirties, followed them and it was my hobby on the little time i had watched e3 and considered my self lucky for that worked so hard for games god i love witcher though ppl called me a close minded when i played they think as playing is only for kids Hard to believe is it not?. Such barbarians u would call perhaps how many times i tried to get out of this country worked and worked and worked yeah like this i ll be out when im like 70 , you know what i say Fuck this kinda destiney but thats not all seeing everyone you love die and the ppl crazy robots is one thing and Losing the Love of your life whom u loved for 20 years another she is a russian girl i got to know her on yahoo and it was love in the first sight i saw her first when i was 11 using my rich friends laptop i love her and now shes married well i told her farewell and a life full of happiness because i can never make it to russia and all i want now is for her to live a happy life and because of this i will not bear this pain any more but you know what there are better ways to die just think i wont commit sucide because im not a coward true life was hard i couldnt live a happy life my self so ill make it happy for another soul by signing up for fighting in IRAQ with those fucking killers or so called Daeshدولت اسلامی شام )ر) i know this is a straight death sentence but at least i will make a boy happy when i save his father by those killers and i might just get killed in the action but in this way i will not die for nothing and be known as hero to them since heroes arent born afterall and the money they give after my death would go straight in my loves bank account so that at least she has a happy life i could never had so american/european potato where ever you are get up and enjoy your life till its last seconds i never had your choice so while you have it use it and remmeber i gave up only because my people sold their happiness for one of the gardens in paradise and thus it made their own grounds as hell and for once in your life be honest with your self and Dont think or act like in the movies dying is never easy and i lived long enough to know that living always worths more than dying try a slower method like eating pills this time youll see and forgot to note like everyone l love tits

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m so sorry. ..you are truly an inspiration…I will live and remember you everytime I whine about my life. My heart goes out to you. I have shared this and just know that all your pain and suffering has not been in vain. Lives will be changed from your story. You are a hero.

    • Anonymous says:

      Your tragic life does not make someone else’s tragic life better. If that’s the case then quit your whining because the Jewish had it worse in ww2. See my point? Some people get shit for a life and some people get lucky, that’s life and who are we to say people can’t opt out?

  138. THD says:

    put a goal like myself i will protect those around and i never fear death i do work off a horse i sweat in the sun at over 50 grades 1 and i drink water 2 while i nonstop cut woods for 3 hours or pull a cargo with crops and i mean cargo for a horse anyway i do with for over 3 years after last attempt of suicide i never once got pat on back or hear great job only words like he’s insane or plain stupid not that i will ever take any words in consideration in short i am trying to say how many times you tried to kill yourself and you failed because your body or heart just won’t stop beating and how happy you where those seconds believing that you will die in the next seconds only to wake up from unconsciousness only to figure out that those motherfuckesrs that put me with their words and judge in a well for fucking 6 hours in cold water are not worth dying for so i got up from that well and never once from those 3 years ever listen to anyone than just my own body when i am tired i sleep and when i am awake until my last drop off energy i work cuz i know i won’t die maybe i will shorten my spawn life but i rather live a short stupid life than a long one like any of those who believ out there they have the hardest time i don’t i am having fun for last 3 years and if i could go back in time i would never change back cuz i love fighting and protecting those around me no matter how solo i am and just to let you know i have a small farm and they are my life

  139. Kennedy CN says:

    I’m 13 and I want to die, but I dont necessarily want to commit suicide. I just want everything to end. Nothing is helping me and it feels like I’m stuck (I go to counseling).I think about suicide everyday. I’m too afraid to call a suicide hotline because I never know what to say, I don’t even truly understand why I am feeling like this and it’s hard for me to actually talk about it. My problems are so unimportant and stupid, Like “You want to die because you’re ugly, what a big baby”. I also hate myself, and dream about being someone else,someone more beautiful. I am very ugly, and black.I look at myself and I see a monster. I want to look like Marilyn Monroe, Kate Upton, Audrey Hepburn, Kerry Washington, and Beyonce. People have even told me I am ugly, so I know it is true. I act so weird around people, and it makes me seem like a retard. I just started self harming, but only scratching myself to make welts. I really like the pain. It’s also something I deserve. I also have a plan for the suicide. I really want and believe I need help.

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m sorry you’re feeling that way. Those women you mentioned have a lot of money to help them look that pretty. Look up celebs without makeup. It’s surprising what money can do for looks… If you have a plan, please reach out to a hotline. All you have to say is hi or I need help or I want to commit suicide. They are trained and will take it from there and help. I probably should take my own advice. I used to be the pretty girl. Popular with all different groups. I was nice though not mean or conceited. I had two babies in a row and gained a ton of weight. I’ve been trying so hard to lose it and can’t. I am miserable and feel so fat I don’t even want to leave the house. I’m sorry you hate yourself. I understand. I hope you find someone to talk to.

    • Lucy says:

      You really want and believe you need help. That’s a start. I too thought I was ugly at your age but it all seemed to turn around when I reached my early 20’s. You could say I was an ugly duckling who turned into a swan. I do have a warning for you though, beauty is only relevant if you believe you’re beautiful. Being pretty and attractive to others doesn’t mean absence of pain. Remember Marilyn was beautiful and she was unhappy in love and life and finally ended hers. There are other things more important and lasting than beauty such as knowledge and wisdom. People are just as attracted to a cheery disposition as they are to physical beauty, work on that and forget about how you look for now. You should get exercise, eat a healthy diet and take care of yourself because you will not magically turn into another person but you can turn into the person you were meant to become.

  140. Anonymous says:

    can someone plz kill me . im too much of a coward to do so . if you kill me you would have done me a great favor .i dont want to keep on living . life is a prison which i need to escape. cant stay alive anymore . i want to end this miserable life

  141. Jennifer says:

    No one owns your life but you. No one commands your body but you. I highly support the notion of rationally thought out self deliverance; instigated by terminal illness or not. I’d go so far as to say that children deserve that right as well if they are suffering unbearably. The key is “rational”. As people, if we are to codify this with laws, then lets allow rational suicide to those who have demonstrated the mental clarity of a well considered self deliverance and the ability to understand what an end of life decision means on may levels; cognitively, spiritually, morally, ethically and by personally held value… bioethics. That is, to each individual’s subjective circumstance which we must learn to speak about using “critical thinking” and not a one size fits all criteria or generalization, becasue each of us are so utterly complex in respect to any decision we may want to make with end of life. Even though I would personally resent the measure of a law, I nevertheless “get it”… that we must appease society as a whole if we want to make progress in the debate of rational suicide. I would support any rational suicide which has mental health and physician safeguards built in in order for a person to be considered “rational”. If we cannot make that choice for ourselves due to incapacity, then I really hope we have the forethought to plan ahead in our advance care directives for someone we trust to do that for us. It’s too bad we humans are stuck in this quagmire. if you want to die, you should be let to legally die with assistance of those who support you in your beliefs, and to die with DIGNITY and not alone by some horribly violent measure like a handgun.

    • Lucy says:

      You’re words are thoughtful and it also mirrors my position. What I find galling is the way society is willing to take away all the safe guards and assistance people may need to succeed in life but then penalize them if they cannot make it and fall into despair. If you read through the comments you’ll notice how many people feel despondent because of they are too poor, cannot find work, feel isolated. Its tremendously sad because I’m sure half of those people would be eased by aid enough that they wouldn’t feel the need to commit suicide. Poverty and the fear of homelessness are not shallow reasons for wanting to die and we won’t know how many of those people would still consider suicide if they had the material assistance that they need. We have done something so destructive in this country by advancing neoliberal policies that gut our social welfare services and think of the world as either “makers” or “takers”, we’ve created a cold world where there’s little social cohesion and no social contract.

  142. linda says:

    After cancer, I am left with less than half a tongue, barely able to speak, barely able to chew or eat, can not taste anything. Radiation destroyed my teeth and mouth. I have spinal cord damage from radiation that no one knows if it will ever get better, excruciating pain in neck, arms, back. They just give me more morphine. No help at all. I am starving and have no hope. Now they are cutting me off SSDI. My religious tradition says I go to hell if I kill myself, but I can hardly stand this another day. I am already in hell. All I want is to fall asleep and never, ever wake up. I hate everything about my life and I will hate myself forever for submitting to “treatment”. Cancer treatment is a giant lie. There is no point living as a “survivor”. It was excruciating before they cut my tongue off but it’s actually worse pain now knowing it will get worse and worse until I die and no one can help. I just want to find the strength to end this.

    • Miss Hannah says:

      I am so sorry, but you shouldn’t hate yourself, that is just adding negativity, which is the last thing you or anyone needs. Just think of it as lessons and experiences you had to go through in order to grow and evolve as a soul. And now/later/next time, you can use that knowledge to help others! And know you are better for it and others can be too! Most people still think these “treatments” are the right thing to do because they are publicised by a business making a hundred billion a year off everyone’s lives. There has always been cures though, but that isn’t being spread around.. barely, at any rate. That wouldn’t make them any money! WHAT YOU CAN DO RIGHT NOW IS FIND A HEALER THAT CAN HELP YOU! I’ve seen one cure a horse with a type of cancer hours before death after the doctors gave up (obviously, since they ran out of drugs to prescribe…)

    • Miss Hannah says:

      if you still want to though, then best of luck!

    • Rei says:

      @Miss Hannah Have you actually read her comment correctly? your reply is rather like you’re advising a teenage girl who hates her body but she actually got everything else. there was no negativity in her comment; she was describing a ‘reality’. just like someone else said here; there is no a one size fits all solution here as we as human beings are way much more complex with different aspects of different things we go through since birth date and all the way through life. I am not trying to imply any ‘solution’ neither suggest help, because simply I don’t know enough. what you say certainly could be true, but definitely for different reasons than what you were having in mind and believing in.

    • Hopeless says:

      I empathize with you as I lost my husband to throat cancer that was not caught until it was too late. We didn’t know…he went thru all that radiation and chemo and pain for nothing. He died within 3 months. I have had Cancer and no way will I go thru that barbaric treatment just to make money and making you think you are going to beat it. BS. If your pain is getting worse and worse, can you not ask your dr. for pain patches. They help only to the degree that you can sleep away the day. I know that is not the answer you are looking for and I feel your pain. Have you been given a diagnosis as to life span?

    • Brent Fisher says:

      Cancer treatment is the biggest scam perpetrated on the world of medicine. It’s like those VCRs that you program to record a 5 hour show in SP 2 hour mode on a T-120 tape then it gets halfway through the tape and the VCR automatically switches to to the lo-fi EP 6 hour mode. Thing is you already squandered half the physical distance of the tape and are doomed to record less than the whole show in low picture quality. It’s bad when you live in a country that says God is not real yet a survivng Cancer is a real thing? Oh puhleese. 100 percent of all non-smokers will die. Unless you die in a car accident or a racist cop pulls out a gun and shoots you, you will die, die, die as a direct result of the cancer. Mabye after death you will end up in a universe where there’s live pink unicorns and technology has advanced in 1000 years where they have no need to carbon bodies and can instead program a cybernetic life form where you will experience life cancer free.

      If you don’t like the weather it will change. Unfortunately it might be a few orders of magnitude longer than the [signed char] 128 years that is alloted.

  143. Dave says:

    I don’t mean to sound insincere or cynical, but I find it a little ironic that everyone in this comment section that is a supporter of assisted suicide suffers from suicidal tendencies. Why politically support it when there’s really no use? [Of course, I’m not ADVOCATING suicide, I just think that assisted suicide is a useless movement.]

    • Anne says:

      How about if it’s illegal the fact that family/friends can’t get life insurance – do you know the fees to bury or cremate someone? Or how about the fact that most suicides don’t go right, but an assisted dr. right to die by not taking fluids/eating is usually a lot less painless, and can be monitored so if they change their mind they can with taking the least amount of pain?

    • Lucy says:

      Actually the assisted suicide movement is focused around the terminally ill not those with suicidal tendencies and its a growing movement in developed countries. There are only a few places (Switzerland and Holland I believe) where someone can claim they have a quality of life issue because of depression or mental illness.

    • Lucy says:

      *Addendum* The article is focused on ‘rational suicide’ which is slightly different than assisted suicide. Rational suicide is focused around those who are not terminal but want to end their life for what some consider ‘rational’ reasons as opposed to a symptom of depression which wrongly implies that that depression is temporary

  144. who cares says:

    I am 13 and have schizophrenia and ADHD. And when I say ADHD, I mean really bad. My mom can’t even deal with me so she does drugs. And she wants to put me on Ritalin which knocks kids back so much they’re a zombie. I’d rather kill myself and have my soul put to rest than live my life in pure misery.

    • who cares says:

      also I cannot pay attention to where I am going and I have painful bruises all over my body. My hips, my legs, my arms, my chest, my face, my stomach. I also vomit everything I eat. When I do eat, it is painful and terrible. My mom also occasionally starves me.

    • Miss Hannah says:

      Find a healer and maybe a psychologist nearby and have them help you! You can get better without all that awfulness! It’s all lessons and experiences though in order to grow and evolve as a soul..

    • Miss Hannah says:

      if you still want to though, then best of luck!

    • I decline to think of a name. says:

      m8 Miss Hannah. One thing I believe not only u but anyone on this planet, having a brain cell or two, should know, is that when someone goes on to tell his problems, it means he has gone trough at least little research and is aware of needing a professional help (SINCE HE JUST ADMITTED HE HAD THE PROBLEM).

      I Genuinely HATE when someone mentions the nightmare he goes trough and then smart-ass people with almost zero thought of what they are going to reply, just moved by some chronic positivity, or guilt because of witch they need to ‘help’ someone atm, GO and tell him that that he needs Medical Help, thinking they really add something NEW. I am not sure if those people are just trolls or totally brainless..but if u think about it, after u reply with such stupid general solution, to someone in real need, u FIRST make that person feels totally ununderstood and SECOND anyone else who could give a reply, gives up much easier cuz one that seems logical, is already existing so the need for an answer is lessened!
      Yes your reply IS indeed logical, but therefore everyone who thinks for a second can reach it as well.

      I won’t try to offend u further. I am just saying such replies like yours actually do the opposite of helping and you should understand that.

      (PS. In my town or the nearby towns, there isn’t a psychiatrist or a clinic solving such problems. I am obviously not the only one in the middle of nowhere, so just think about it.)

    • Brent Fisher says:

      Reminds me of the story of the military soldier which very large numbers of the enemy was coming to the camp and he radioed to an overhead pilot just do an air strike on this target with me in it. And the pilot said “Did you know what you just said?” He said do it, we can kill lots of the enemy…I don’t have enough bullets to kill them all.. The pilot said “Please confirm your target” And he said, “Tell my wife and kids I love them.” And he died with a lot of the enemy.

      Which brings the morbid sick question:

      Would you intentionally kill yourself early to save the lives of 20 schoolchildren which have potential for a good life instead of going so depressed that you kill yourself along WITH those 20 schoolchildren?

      That’s a question only a hero can answer. It’s your life.

    • Brandon says:

      I am a schizophrenic with adhd and autism, I learned not to take my medicine and btw your mom is prob just An addict with mental problems I would suggest calling child support. A more loving environment usually takes away a lot of the effects of schizophrenia and adhd

  145. VL says:

    I am 60 years old and have a chronic illnes that makes my life unbearable. I have had a full life and a career – why should I not be able to take my own life?

  146. Fuck you says:

    I am so depr that I can’t handle breathing I own my life why should some one who don’t kno me have a say what’s best for me duck you

  147. a human out of a billion says:

    if someone wants to die, let ’em die.

    your life is YOURS.
    it belongs to you so it’s your responsibility.
    you are the master and blacksmith of your own existence.

    only you can decide the value of your life.
    no one can live it for you if you don’t want to.

    that freedom is your privilege, not something to be saved from.
    if you throw yourself away instead to take care of your needs, no one else can really stop you, except your primal will to live.

    they’ve already been corrupted, might as well let them.

    i don’t encourage this at all, though it is their choice and we shouldn’t get in the way.

    though at the same time, you should be grateful that you’re living life, there are many people who wanted to keep on living, though their wish did not come through.


    you can debate with me if you want to just hmu
    ig: ilysmjean/ihysmjean

  148. floridachris says:

    No , some should not be prevented , like my case . I suffer from severe chronic pain & now this 80/20 thing . Each case is different but my medication is now limited . I suffer from spinal damage , slipped discs , herniated discs , a torn rotator cuff with at least 3 damaged nerves & i got by with my meds but now they are limited very much & i live in pure misery & want to die . Since i can not die with dignity suicide is my best soluation to not suffer so very much anymore . I am sorry to those that are loved . God Bless & have mercy on my soul .

    • Miss Hannah says:

      Try a healer! Medication is not meant to help, it’s meant to make the pharmaceutical companies money and they are by making and keeping people unwell.

    • Miss Hannah says:

      if you still want to though, then best of luck!

    • Miss Hannah says:

      Bottom line: people should consider every option and factor and people that may be affected, and if they still want to, it’s their decision. Forcing people to live is the same as forcing them to die, sometimes worse.

    • Tanus says:

      Please ignore Miss Hannah, she has the one size fits all solution and clearly has no personal experience with what you are talking about. She has this agenda of “exposing” the evil big pharma and their intentions. she doesn´t care about you or me.

  149. Lonely says:

    I want to die. I have lost everything in life.

    • Hell if that is all…join the club! I never had anything then lost what I thought I had. The only reason I am still here is to see what more they can throw at me!

  150. Anonymous says:

    I hate every ounce of my being. I look in a t my reflection and want to smash it. I have not friends nor am I close to any family members. When they contact me it’s for money. My life is not even predictabe since I am bipolar and have lupus and also Mac Tel. I am just so tired nothing is going to get better and all that is ahead of me is being a burden on someone that does not want me

    what is the use of life it it is not living????

  151. Unknown says:

    With proper guide lines and a mandatory wait period assisted suicide should be a personal choice and a legal option.

    I did not give consent to be born, but now that I’m here it’s MY life.

    I LOVE life, but I don’t love suffering every day because of a genetic illness and severe chronic pain. Unless someone lives in my shoes they should not be able to tell me what is endurable.

    I’m living to please others, if not for the stigma and the pain it would cause my family I would choose to die.

    • allthere says:

      What you said at the end really hits home with me. I come from a very abusive family and although I.don’t physically abuse wife or.children I am so quick to anger that they live in fear of me as if I had always hit them the way my dad did us. I can remember as a boy spending the night with friends and seeing their dad’s, or one whose dad had passed when he was very young and I literally daydreams about go such better my life would have been. I can’t help but now look at my children and be ashamed that I am so very close to what my father was. I weigh their time left, and mine, and I know the statistics about children who have lost a parent and yet I cannot logically say that children would not have a better.chance in this life were I not here as a damaging force. I keep myself alive right now simply out of the recognition of the pain that I would cause to those unfortunate enough to love me, my children who do not know any better, and knowing that as they grow they too will surely wonder how things could have been if only I had not been such a destructive force.

    • Brent Fisher says:

      It worse than that, you are living just because the enemy wants to have person to torment. The enemy can be horrible and cruel to want someone to stay alive just so they can torment them. It’s like the bratty kid who beats and tortures a scottish fold kitten then when it has no pulse he massages his heart to get it to live again.

  152. Anonymous says:

    If someone wants to die let them die. How is that not ok? Some say it’s selfish and it effects the people you love. Well what about the person who’s been suffering for half their life? What about the person who lays in bed every single night hoping to fall asleep all the while thinking about dying then never falls asleep sometimes for three or for days at a time? Or the useless Dr’s who used him as a lab rat throwing different medications at him to see if they work. What about the religious freaks that say God this and Jesus that oh pray your way to happiness. That is the oldest fairytale ever told and if there was a god what the hell is he doing because he certainly isn’t doing anything impressive that I’ve seen. Our fore father’s must be rolling in their graves. Liberal douche bags giving away everything to the illegal immigrants for free while us blue collar guys work our bodies to the bone. I’ve had it there’s no reason to live anymore. I hope there is no way to find me when I die. I hate funerals and all the BS that goes with it. Just throw me in the trash who cares. If someone wants to die then let them die they have been suffering long enough. I say go kill yourself I’m going to. FUCK THIS WORLD I’M OUT OF HERE!!!

  153. anan says:

    We are all terminally ill; none of us gets out alive. If for me, if life’s pain exceeds its pleasure, it is just rage inducing that someone else should think it there business whether I come or go. I’m successful, have a family, have never suffered from mental illness, but would just rather not be than be. Entirely rational and no ones business but mine. When everything else is stripped away, our life is the only thing that is really ours. But because of some f’d up do-gooder need of people to impose their will on others, one’s family has to find the remains of a shotgun blast rather than just quietly going to sleep. I’ve felt this way for years, just waiting until kids are off on there own, or maybe i;ve just been too much of chicken. we’ll see.

    the typical responses, please please please don’t do it. 1) why would you give a crap and 2) mind your own business

    Open up assisted suicide for whoever wants it.

  154. Minax Allore says:

    I liked this article but did not like how you said “even” people with incurable chronic illness. I am disabled and I am sick of the world telling us suicide prevention is not for us.

  155. Shura says:

    I love you all! Hello! I do too have a sever depression and the idea of suicide make me feel in control of something. But I know I’m not going to do it! Love You! Take care of yourself!

  156. Dharmendar says:

    I’m 23 year old and wanted to die..I try to understand my inner soul but..my mind.. always defeat me..it is very hard to control my mind..which..make me to think negative about ppl…

  157. no name please says:

    My husband asked me to allow him to take his life to prevent him from returning to a tortuous life of imprisonment of 10 years for non violent minor drug charge. I had spent years with his PTSD from a prior prison term and had witnessed what it had done to him. He knew he had broken the law but would not return to prison after completing a 4 month drug rehab in another state and had returned a changed man. I honestly could not let him return to that system that had so destroyed his mental health. He had worked so hard to change from deep down and I would not let that system destroy him again. I promised him that I would not stop him and let him choose his death.
    I myself am suffering severe PTSD from not stopping him but could not let him suffer any longer. We had escaped to a third world country to start over. But the US system was going to stop his disability payments since he was a wanted man and he felt we could not survive on my check alone. At the time I felt it was humane. I still feel that way. My only regret is that I didn’t go with him. I had sworn my life to my husband to protect and love him forever. That I didn’t convince him to at least try and survive on my check or find some other option haunts my every living minutes. There was no answer, no solution. In my eyes my only option was to lie down with him and go together because I knew what my life would be without him.
    Two years later, I still feel the same. I know that was my only option free from mental torture. I have been through extensive counseling and they try to convince me that there was nothing else I could do after all that I had done to help him escape. But I live with the truth of knowing that I let him down by not fighting harder, even though I at that time was suffering severely with what to do also. But there was no coming back to the US for us. With my beliefs I failed myself by not going with him.
    Now I am back in the states suffering minute by minute in a world inside my head that no one knows about. My friends and family try to distract me but that is temporary. It always comes back to the same silent moments alone with what I have done….of how I let him down by not gong with him.
    People who do not believe in humane dying do not understand and never will. It is not my place to change anyone’s mind, but only live or not live as I see fit. I am ready to go. There is no other peace for me.
    I now understand what it is like to force someone to live in mental torture.

  158. California says:

    I doubt this site is even monitored, but I truly want to die. I cannot think of one reason to live. I have tried to commit suicide 3 times, and the main reason I’m holding back is fear of surviving again. I am in such mental pain, the thought of physical pain (and living) is unbearable. I do not have pills, or a gun. I do have a suicide bag and helium (I’ve had for months) that I can’t make work. I have BPD, and realize I’ll never have in life what I’ve sought for 54 years. I’m totally alone, and know I’ve never truly been loved, nor cared for, and don’t have the desire to try to re-build my life….again. All I think about is how to die, and all I do is cry. I want to die.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      Indeed this site is monitored, although I have been delayed in approving comments. I’m very sorry you’re suffering like this. Please, please, please continue to reach out for help. I presume you’ve received therapy or other help already, since you said you have BPD. Still, please keep trying. A good place to start is the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, at 1.800.273.8255 (TALK). I’ve listed other places where you can get help by phone, chat, or email on this site’s Resources page at speakingofsuicide.com/resources/#immediatehelp.

      I hope you will find some relief and hope soon.

    • THX 2000 says:

      I’m 46 and I’m planning suicide as well. I’ve stopped taking Prozac to finally gather up the courage. I have it all planned, just trying to find the right time to do it. I’ve ‘slept on it’ for weeks now and have tested out non-fatal ‘trials’. I still have a lot of financial things I don’t want to dump onto my husband because he’ll be a little preoccupied with useless grief for a few months. I think late in life suicides (I’m 46) are justifiable because we’ve been around the block, gone down several roads that look ‘different’ but in fact they are all the same and lead back to one irrfutable truth. I, like many other ‘demographics’ are simply parasites. Our presence causes damage to not only the world, but other people. Research who actually builds your iPhone, or makes your Nike shoes, or your purse or your pants. Find out where those products at Wallmart and the dollar store come from and who pays the price when we don’t. We consume resources unfairly, refuse to pay what things are actually WORTH and taint the rest of the world with our ‘hero’ myth of capitalism and ‘democracy’. On top of that, your health WILL deteriorate every day from now until you die from ‘natural causes’. Don’t bother calling one of those ‘help lines’. They (and everyone else) use your relationships as a weapon to ‘guilt’ you out of it. Personally, I just want to get out of the way so someone who deserves it can get the resources I selfishly hoard. I don’t even cry about it anymore – that’s how I know I’m ready. I have a great family and feel bad about hurting them, but after a while, they’ll forget. Everyone will forget you and everyone will be forgotten. It’s the nature of humanity – how short are our memories.

    • Beth says:


      You are not alone. I am 30 and have BPD and it has robbed me of my happiness, my loved ones, and every hope and dream I ever have. I am blamed by everyone.

      I too think of nothing but dying. No stupid suicide hotline would change that.

      Assisted suicide should be legal for us.

    • California says:

      Who cares? No one cares if I have problems, that I’m homeless, that I’m absolutely alone, miserable, and devistated.
      I’ve tried suicide so many times. I failed at it. I suck at everything. I’ve tried everything to find help, reach out, tried every avenue. I don’t want to be locked up, I’ve been locked up in one way or another all my life. Mostly in my head, but in mental wards too.
      I’m sad, I’m angry, I’m hurt, I’m broken, and no one gives a shit! Everyone has their own shit. No one cares about mine.
      I can’t get street drugs, I can’t get prescription drugs, I can’t buy a gun, my suicide bag failed, I just don’t think I can cut myself enough to cause death, I don’t want to fail again. I want a fool proof way to just DIE! I’ll never find love, or ever be loved. I’ve spent my whole life re-building my life after each disaster. Mostly from men who lied, used, and abused me. Im tired of being used, being treated like crap. Losing at everything I try. I’m tired, I just want to go to sleep, and not wake up. Fuck trying again….no one will help me, no one hears me, no one understands what I’ve endured. No one wants me, but no one will let me go. It’ll never be, “ok”. I’m already in hell. Pure hell. I should have the right to a painless death. We euthanize pets to be humane. Why can’t we afford old, useless people who are suffering the same?

    • Gabriel says:

      I know how you feel California. I’m only fourteen years old and I’ve attempted suicide seven different times. I’m just too reckless to get it right… I’ve been forsaken by my family and the friends I used to know. Ever since my BPD hit, no one has wanted to help me except for a few, but of course they didn’t help. No one has. To be honest, I has psychosis as well…

    • Dave says:

      Always there is the suggestion of referral to the suicide hotlines, but I suspect most of us have already done that and they are really only a listening service and make no claims that they save any lives or even that they help. Only if you feel talking helps will they be of benefit, but when you’ve done that (which I suspect most of us writing here have done) and been through all the psych options (none of which have any evidence of benefit), you are left with living with yourself and we are all ultimately alone in that and the decisions we make, which are our own responsibility.

    • Brent Fisher says:

      Obviously don’t kill yourself. It’s turtles all the way down. You are correct in that you will survive again. Scientifically you will be alive with odds one in one. It’s as useful as being in a universe with yourself, a dart, and the vacuum of space. The odds that you can throw the dart away from you and have it hit a major artery and cause you to bleed to death truly impossible. There is no spot for the dart to go. Suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem. The odds of being alive no matter what technology or weapons system are brought to bear is 1:1.

      Just that if you kill yourself and it looks like you failed to yourself, there actually is a universe where all your tormenters have found you dead. So don’t kill yourself.

  159. Anonymous says:

    I’m a 15 year old girl and I don’t think I’m worth the oxygen I take up. I’m unlovable. I’ve been used and abused so much I need the pain just to feel anything. I need to die. Because once I die, everyone will forget about me and move on. But I don’t know the best way to do it. Suggestions?

    • Anonymous says:

      just change your routine

    • Anonymous says:

      Love, please don’t hurt yourself, get help any way you can- a relative, a friend, a teacher, a classmate. I have struggled with thoughts of suicide myself but I am recovering and I can tell you, you have a long life to live and there’s so much good to put out in the world. You are 15 and full of potential!

    • Minax Allore says:

      Loved ones don’t forget and move on. The unnatural death of a loved one haunts one and weighs you down for your entire life. Your life matters a lot, you can’t see it when you’re so young. You’re just blooming.

    • Anonymous says:

      Sweetheart. I am a divorced father of a girl I love more than anything…anything on this earth. If I were to lose her, everything would be gone…gone forever. You think no one will remember you or care about you, but you’re wrong. I suspect someone, some heartache, or some trauma has made you feel this way. You might be thinking “if I die, they’ll feel so sorry.” Sadly, they won’t be. The people who have hurt you already showed you they don’t care. It’s a hard, hard reality to face. But I’m here to tell you – there are people out there who genuinely do love you and want you to be in their lives. You are 15. I imagine you have had some really hard times. But please don’t hurt yourself. You are loved, even if you don’t know it, ok?

    • Lucy says:

      No one is “unlovable”, even Hitler was loved by someone. So if Hitler could be loved then I’m sure it’s double- fold for you. I think you may confuse feeling unloved with unlovable. Not the same thing at all, just because you feel unloved doesn’t mean you are unloved. You want to see real love in action? Just watch this http://www.dogheirs.com/larne/posts/4863-man-saves-severely-wounded-dog-dog-s-amazing-recovery-will-touch-your-heart-photos

      Just look at the pictures you don’t have to read the text. That is love and no being in this world is unlovable.

  160. Anonymous says:

    One additional consideration is end-of-life planning. Currently, individuals who are truly at the point of suicide must take care of all the planning in secret, like criminals. This does not allow for proper farewells. It also does not allow the person to take care of family needs such as wills, etc. One of the reasons suicide is seen as selfish is that those that are at this point have no help in taking care of these loose ends.

    • Anonymous says:

      I want to die too. I don’t have any suggestions for you, but I do want you to know that there do exist people who simply can never be happy. Who will always arrive back at the bottom of the bay; the deepest end. My life, at only 20 years old is quite literally over. There is nothing left in the world for me. If I had killed myself at your age, so many people would be happy. So many spared. But it’s too late now. Until the day I either kill myself or someone else kills me, I will eternally live in despair and maybe pass on from poor health if nothing else.

    • Minax Allore says:

      Happiness is overrated. Especially the pursuit of it.

  161. Anonymous says:

    One additional consideration is that of end-of-life planning. Those that truly need to end their lives must do so in secret, like criminals. This makes it very difficult to say proper farewells and wills, etc. are taken care of. Because of the stigma of this decision, these individuals are not able to get the help they need.

  162. lonne says:

    I want too die there is no hope it is inevitable thankyou very much been in chronic pain for too long and now wiith the pain medicine epidemic I cannot get any relief for mypainful suffering I have from my spinal damage

    • Anonymous says:

      Try smoking weed

    • Holly O says:

      Suffering is a part of life. It is the strife of life that makes it so great! Nothing is supposed to be easy. There is no challenge or fun in that… much like an easy woman. If a woman will sleep with you very easily, she becomes dispensable… if life was very easy, it wouldn’t have value. BTW I HOPE YOU CAN READ THIS

  163. John says:

    It is very frustrating and unhelpful to have one’s wishes dismissed as irrational. It is quite “decidedly irrational” that you may wish to go on holiday, or to go to the opera, or to get married, or whatever it is that you may want to do. In fact all of your desires are irrational. Those things that you think are good are in actuality only good because you think they are. How does that feel for you, Ms. Freedenthal, to be informed by someone who doesn’t even know you of how thoroughly irrational you are? Does that help you to resolve your total irrationality?

  164. Phil says:

    I am 25 year old male and I am depressed. I started seeing a therapist but I don’t feel like it has been working, my depression has only gotten worse. I was raped by my cousin when I was seven years old. I am sad all the time and the only escape i see is death. Thinking about dying makes me happy because I feel that if I am dead I will no longer have to feel what I am feeling. I do not have any friends. I have trouble trusting people. I am not an honest person. I’m scared that people will find out about me. They will laugh at me or feel bad for me and treat me like some fragile thing. But it’s the only way I can be safe. I push people away if they try coming close.

    I told myself that I became “successful” in life I would be happy. Yes I got a master’s in engineering from a pretty good school and I have a good job. But what does that mean? Nothing. It means nothing to me. I’m still sad. It’s not fair that my cousin gets to live a normal life and I don’t. I have a girlfriend who says she loves me but I’m not sure if she is just with me out of pity. I do not know what love is. I hurt myself when I’m upset and my girlfriend gets mad at me when I do. I have taken glass bottles and smashed them against my head when I’m sad. I don’t know how to be a normal person. I want to be but I don’t think I can. I wish it didn’t happen to me. So maybe I could have been normal. I know it would hurt my family and my girlfriend if I were to die but I feel like they would have better lives. I want her to find someone that won’t bring her down and treat her better than I could treat her. I couldn’t protect myself so how could I possibly protect her.

    People do not know what it’s like to hate yourself. So many good events I can’t recall but that one event is the only memory that I see so clearly. It’s always in my head. I feel trapped. There is no Escape. I wish I had been successful at killing myself when I was 17. I wish he had killed me after he had done it.

    • Minax Allore says:

      Therapy takes years to work in my experience but its worth the effort and helps in the end. It can also take a while of trying out different psych meds to find out whats right for you. Also, consider that with the self-harming behavior you might have high functioning autism as self harm is not just from mental illness but also sensory seeking behavior and life with an diagnosed condition like autism can be filled with confusion and despair.

    • Someone says:

      I know how you feel. I do. But it is the anger that gets muted and that is depression. You have to find a way to let that out. It is always hard. You are beautiful and IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT! Please know that because I had felt like I deserved it. I had wished he could of killed me too. Just hang on. I don’t know you but I love you. You are my brother. All of us boys who were abused are. Reach out and help a brother. Let them know that you know. Tell them it isn’t their fault. Just listen.

    • Meg says:

      I am so sorry this happened to you Phil! Please know this was NOT your fault! The blame and guilt lies squarely on the shoulders of your cousin, even though you are the one left picking up the pieces with feelings of guilt, frustration, anger and shame. You were only a child. He took advantage of you. His own karma will come back to him though. Do not kill yourself over that piece of rubbish!!! You couldn’t do anything about it as a child because you were vulnerable and helpless. You can do something about it now as an adult though. Do NOT let someone else’s actions ruin your life!!! Have you confronted your cousin about the rape and told him how it affected you? (You have to decide if that’s the right course of action for you of course. Even if he doesn’t acknowledge it, it might bring you some closure). Also have you seen a therapist to talk through your feelings? Try your best to focus on the positive things in your life and leave this incident in the far distant past and move on with your life! You deserve that! Best wishes! Meg

  165. Heber says:

    I have lost my job my home and family to my mental illness which I have had all my life. It has taken everything from me. I have tried to kill myself 5 times. Spent a year in a mental hospital. Things are not going to get better. Why can’t people with mental illness also live and die with dignity. I am afraid of talking with people because they say if things don’t start getting better they will put me back in the state hospital. People should have a choice.

  166. janice says:

    Interesting article. I don’t think suicide should always be prevented. I have attempted suicide 7 times, been committed, and hospitalized 15 times. All within the last two years. I got accepted into medical school last year, and didn’t go in fear that my mental health might prevent me from doing well in med school, even though I have gotten good grades through undergrad and graduate school. I see a psychiatrist 2-3x/week, and have been doing this for 4 years.

    I’m still depressed, and suicidal. I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. I don’t know if I will be able to get into medical school again. If I can’t become a doctor, there is NO point in living. I’m miserable and hate myself, I hate this world. It’s so sad. People can be mean and it’s hard to remember they are just projecting early experiences onto you.

    I don’t feel like anyone understands me. I think very deep about things, analyzing everything; people just can’t follow my thought process. I don’t know how to speak differently. I don’t want to be around anyone because I am constantly being let down. My mom committed suicide, so did my uncle, my brother and cousin have attempted. It runs in the family. I feel like it’s my destiny. I am so sick of feeling miserable, not good enough, not smart enough, just not enough. I don’t see this ever changing. So I think when someone is chronically suicidal, reliving past traumas, severely depressed, then suicide might be ‘rational.’

    • Gabriela says:

      Hi Janice, I am also constantly being let down by people. Which is why I don’t talk to anybody anymore. With is why I don’t have any friends. It’s hard being alone when all everyone seems to do is hurt you.

    • Seeker says:

      I know that feeling of if I can’t be something it’s not worth living. I personally think we should at least allow ourselves to do something else if we fail at our original goals and see if we turn out happier. If not… Well then…it’s your choice albeit a tragic one…

    • THX 2000 says:

      I can relate to the ‘over analysis’. Everything goes through extensive review in my mind, and the usual conclusion is that I’m broken, or worthless, or evil.

  167. Helen says:

    The Suffering caused by mental health conditions is as umbearable as physical pain, so if someone wants to die, And has a coherent argument for it, should have the option to do so without having to resort to extreme measures that traumatize those left behind, or risking failure

  168. NotYourCall says:

    If I decided to end my life and someone stopped me, I would likely hate that person with and rejoice in any misfortune that came their way for the rest of my days.

    No one likes a meddler.

  169. Norman says:

    Still again poor people are left out of our corporate health care system. No money no doctor. We need single payer health care. Than many people would not feel so hopeless and helpless. I will not use a charity doctor. Any doctors that accept Medicare are not making any money so they are charity doctors.

    • Lucy says:

      Thank you so much for pointing this out! What you say is so true and its not only in health care but all sorts of social services which helped ease suffering. Just look at the comments here! I am shocked at how many people are feeling isolated because of poverty, fear of losing their homes, not being able to find a job, not being able to support their own lives. Many of these people would not opt for suicide if they had a degree of financial stability.

  170. Anonymous says:

    No, of course not. Nor should it be encouraged to depressives as a form of eugenics. There’s a middle ground here.

  171. Anonymous says:

    I want to argue on this point “These extreme examples illustrate that the wish to die is fluid.”. It is in our instinct as humans to fear death and avoid it, in any case whatsoever. I’m pretty sure anyone who commit suicide had regret it just before their death, it is not something we can control. It’s very similar to our fear of swimming when we first learn it, we try to ignore our uncontrollable fear of drowning. So this reason does not make suicide unjustifiable, because this kind of fear in this case is uncontrollable, may not be rational and is something we sometimes ignore to accomplish other things.

  172. To answer this, let’s look at human consciousness from a scientific and mathematical perspective. The human condition as we know it is both a physical and mental manifestation, as is everything comprising the universe, which constitutes what we refer to as reality. This is more broadly described in the CTMU by Christopher M Langon and has been mathematically proven.

    So if we exist both as a physical and manifestation of consciousness (sometimes) refered to as the “soul” , we have to abide by the rules of the Universe. One of which is the Law of the conservation of energy, which states that “Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another. ” This we know is physics.

    Thus, it is possible from that perspective that what we know as consciousness or the awareness of self, aka your soul representing the mental component, will abide to the same rule (governed by the law consistency). There is still a lot of work to be done in this field, and ridiculous fantastic claims of a spiritual Ethiopia awaiting us are all but fantasy.

    But as I mentioned in my earlier reply, it is useful to read up on the work of Dr Ian Stevenson. This should shed light on the possibility of the continuous manifestation of consciousness in a different physical vessel from a scientific perspective.

    My apologies once again for posting this on a forum with a different subject of discussion, but I think it might shed light on the existence of self even after suicide.

    • Lucy says:

      Don’t apologize I see the relevance in what you’re saying and it may actually give perspective to some people

  173. Anonymous says:

    No. Suicides should not be prevented. The despair goes on minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day and year after year. Why should people have to put up with that? Life is utter and absolute crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  174. Anonymous says:

    What if your suicide stops the slow torture of loved ones that is inflicted by depression? Years and years of the roller coaster must be exhausting for the ones you love. Leave them a long detailed love letter. Not about yourself but about them and why in time the good memories will live on as opposed to the pain placed upon them by the never ending depression that they lived through. Maybe it’s an act of love.

  175. will robertson says:

    just thought i would throw my 2 cents in. all these people that thought their death would end whatever was going on, i am here with zero authority to say they are mistaken with absolutely no proof or evidence to support my statements whatsoever. i wish life and time was linear like it has been cleverly presented to us but alas, it is not. time really is a circle, we as observers each have our own perception of what reality is because we as observers also have the unfortunate ability to create that reality. there are events and variables that are beyond our ability to control but not beyond our ability to observe. sorry to rain on the parade but we are all stuck with the life we observed and we will be continually because there is no end. thats how a circle works. as observers if we hate the life we are observing than changing it shouldnt be unreasonable. ive tried twice to kill myself before i realized that i will forever be stuck in this reality. thats assuming im even alive or whatever. i have created for myself this current plane of reality as it exists for me and death is not a permanent ailment as much as i wish it were. when i exit this plane of existence, i will be seamlessly integrated into the existence i can recognize because i have observed it before.that means im stuck, forever, in this life. there is no heaven or hell outside of what we have created thru our own observations. im not talking about reincarnation. that would assume that we get more time thru different physical means which is incorrect. email me for more info im not crazy im just real about it is all. it is what it is and we anyone that contacts me is stuck in this plane same as i am. theres no ascension though folks. there is no escape. good luck on the other side but im here to say there is no “other side” folks. theres just you and your reality. “i was born into this world alone, and i shall die alone. for no being can accompany me to my own reality.”

    • Although I agree with you in part on certain assumptions, being the repetitive subjection to the same life scenarios, but in different vessels of existence, I disagree with the statement that the doctrine of reincarnation is incorrect. The extensive research by Dr Ian Stevenson provides attiquate evidence to support the idea of reincarnation. But I do believe that it is a subject for a different forum.

    • IsThereAResetButton says:

      Are you trying to say that we exist in a different plane after death? One that isn’t good or bad? Just is?

      I wish I could believe this but I really think there is nothing.

  176. NotYourCall says:

    Not all pain can be effectively treated or managed well enough to make a person feel they wouldn’t still rather be dead.

  177. NotYourCall says:

    It’s no one’s place to force their suicide-is-wrong beliefs onto someone else who wants to die, however well-intentioned. The person attempting to intervene is not the one who has to live with the pain that makes someone want to end his/her life in the first place.

  178. IsThereAResetButton says:

    You will all probably hate me for writing this but hey. .
    I would be what humanity would describe as sociopath or psycho. I haven’t killed anyone or hurt anyone but it’s best way to describe it.

    I feel no love or emotion. I never have felt true love or selfless caring for another being. I deluded myself into thinking I did. When it was merely obsession and a narcissistic feeding to me ego. I would only care if they were showing affection or attention to me. In any shape or form. I thought I was this loving and happy go lucky person and so did everyone around me when in fact I would see it as an insult or an annoyance if anyone was to show any emotional turmoil or mention a person dying.

    I am 24 years old female (apparently)
    I would give anything to feel any type of emotional pain, to cry or son endlessly. At least its feeling something.
    Since a toddler I never showed love towards
    I’ve become so detached from this world that I don’t believe in days, months or what year it is. These are all man made concepts in my opinion. Even medical information or illness or dieseases, they all are created and thought out by humans.
    Seeing that I’m still existing on not normal sleep. It’s almost as if I go through motions of what sleep looks like to others but I’m not sleeping and I’ll never be able to fully explain it.

    I eat food but never get that “full” feeling and no I’m not overweight. Its as if normal body functions have completely deserted the body. No heat or sweat from running, no need for water, body doesn’t feel effects of stress, get tense muscles or possibly a cold sore on the lip, all of these I’d rather be feeling that just a dead body. swimming is nothing also, no strectged muscles or feelings of strain after not swimming for a long time. No comforting exhaustion after.

    I believe that all creatures on this planet or whatever it is are all the same, from ants to man to dogs to a zebra or even a blob of bacteria. They were either born with ability to care and be selfless or just have a bonding aspect or not. Or they have a engrained work ethic from the get go.

    But yes anyway you can see how unattached I am to the human existence. I much rather would be able to feel a load of pain from maybe losing a loved one or breaking a bone. But my body or whatever I am would never venture enough to allow anything to happen to this parasitic body. I’d never allow any surgery to occur. I thought the reason I’d be afraid of getting pregnant because I’d not be ready for a baby at young age but apparently it was because my body wouldn’t allow it.

    Well you can see how far gone I’m gone and detached from this world. I will not be in this existence by next year anyway.
    It’s just frustrating as my parents are actually great parents and very supportive but ive just been born as a total parasite and not capable of existing in this world. But I’m so full of my own existence, fear of physical pain and terrified of death that I can’t kill myself. So I’ve to just wait out until I just stop. I’d give anything to be depressed or be feeling anxiety or even believe in them. Or believe in what this human world has built up. Or have been born differently. And no its not a obsessional thinking disorder, how can it be that when its simply what is happening to whatever I am.

    So if you are depressed or in emotional pain at least take some kind of solace that you’ve got some kind of grips on this life. That you’re depressed over not holding a job or don’t have a significant other.
    I do feel pissed that I’ve been drawn a shit end of stick, I would much rather be driving around in car, being capable of concentrating on a job, any job, a mundane retail job, Anything that holds normal human routine.believing in mornings and breakfast. Holding a value on money. wanting kids or deciding wether to go on holidays. Give me boring everyday existence over whether the hell this is.

    • Anonymous says:

      I am in the exact situation you are in. I was born with only this infinite emptiness in me, and unspeakable nihilistic loveless darkness. I have blamed everyone and everything for this, and felt infinitely victimised, but the sad but sorry truth is that that is who I am am in my innermost being. I have never been able to have any loving connections or achieve anything as I am completely devoid of goodness, and am profoundly and fundamentally a nihilistic egoistic parasite, incapable of anything except endless self-destruction. I wish for all the infinite universe I could just be human. But I’m not. I guess I’ll have to face myself on the next plane, as there is no hope for me getting through this. I have tried endlessly, but every fibre of my being is imbued with infinite darkness, and transformation is beyond my reach, as much as I want it.

  179. Cat says:

    I’ve been trying to off myself since age 5. I live in constant mental pain. My mental condition is a permanent situation, and suicide is a permanent solution to a permanent situation. Even on a slew of meds there is suicide ideations. The slew of meds are a temporary solution to a permanent situation. The’ do gooders” now want to electrically fry brain cells. Now I ask you. Who is trying to make who feel better? The Do Gooders that have never had to deal with a life sentence of mental agony and pain. Want to make themselves feel better by frying brain cells! They want to barbarically kill brain cells- no control over if they will be good or bad brain cells. just flip a switch and hope for “our” best. At best out come- there will be no memory of anything bad or good. Creating brain death at the do gooders hands is more acceptable that the sufferer creating a brain death. Huh?
    This is a biological pain!, I am suffering. I am tired of the constant struggle. I am tired of the all the relapses.
    If I were a cancer patient out of remission, there would be hospice- dying with dignity. My form of depression IS a terminal illness. I am not insane. I am a person able to make my own decisions.
    If you were in my brain you would feel the same. Yet they will give chemical treatment not knowing why some will or won’t work, the very same chemicals that will have horrible side effects- and some are permanent. I promise- I’ll donate my brain to science if they let me die. Sounds like a win, win to me.

  180. philocipher says:

    My contention is that if you insist that people must fish, you must give them a place to fish, tools to fish with, and a market for their catch. Similarly, if you insist people ought to stick around, you can’t just say ‘life is what you make of it’ and prattle on with platinum-plated platitudes. Freedom of religion implies freedom from religion. Live in a non-arranged marriage society? You just may die single. People want you to live? Then they must take a stand on what the objective meaning of life is. We can’t live just to obey vague norms and insidious taboos. Put up an argument, or accept someone’s pessimism as the equal and opposite of your optimism! Moreover, I personally am disgusted with modern society, and what the 21st century is shaping up to be. I despair of effecting any change. I fear the future. This early in my life, i am littered with regrets and disappointments that will never be made whole, and it seems like mediocrity clear to the horizon. It seems I will only accumulate shortages (!). No-one can recommend that I live, out of concern for my interests. Perhaps the neutrality of nonexistence versus the burden of life is like breaking even vs making a loss. If them’s the breaks, then you can’t invariably promote life to everyone, all the time. It takes nuance and inflection, because life can be an affliction.

    Thank you for the open discussion.

    • francisco says:

      I don’t want to be responsible for anyone else’s decision, but the option should be available. Music has gone down the drain, poetry, literature. I feel happy most of the time, I love myself, there are plenty of good people in the world, I can find little enclaves of joy in my heart and in the world. But intellectually, life seems like a relentlessly idiotic farce. The inmates are running the asylum. I need that option just in case things get even stupider. It would increase my joy knowing I have the option to opt out, and I’m not just enduring like an animal, that I’m choosing to be here and am not compelled or coerced or guilted into to doing so.

  181. blehbleh _ says:

    Hello, I am 19 years old and I was diagnosed with major depression and anxiety disorder at 16. For the past 3 years, I have thought about suicide every single day. Before that I still thought about suicide but I had many things to live for and felt content, I had friends and things I enjoyed doing. I am not on anti-depressants as being on them made me feel like someone I’m not, like a zombie with some sense of falsified joy. I have never wished for happiness as I know happiness is only a temporary feeling. All I’ve ever wanted is to feel okay. I can’t even remember what it feels like to be okay anymore. Every day when I wake up I feel disappointed. Nothing has a purpose and I can’t find meaning in anything I do. Everything that used to bring me joy does nothing for me now. I recently got out of a 3 year long physically and mentally abusive relationship which I really needed and am glad about but at least I wasn’t alone. My best friend, and only friend, of 6 years just told me she didn’t want to be my friend anymore, she says that she doesn’t know who I am anymore. Depression made me lose who I am. I also recently lost my cat in an accident who to me was much much more than just a cat. The many times I thought about suicide the only reason I decided to stay was because of him. He truly meant everything to me and my only joy in life was knowing that at least I had him. This all happened within a few months. After I got out of the abusive relationship I was focusing on finding myself and being more positive, as soon as I started to believe that I might be okay, the accident happened and my baby was taken from me without me even being able to say goodbye. My father is very mentally sick, he is sociopathic and has narcissistic personality disorder. He has mentally abused me and my family for many years. My parents are divorced but every time I see him he makes sure that I know just how worthless I am. Both him and my ex verbally abused me for the past 3 years with my dad, all my life but at the time I was living with him so it was much much worse not having my mom to defend me. They truly made me believe I am worthless. My ex had anger issues and would hit me even when I did nothing wrong, I preferred the hitting to the verbal abuse honestly, I also got cheated on and lied too and much more, just about every form of betrayal. I would get panic attacks every single day when I was with my ex. Thankfully those have lessened greatly but I still get them in social situations. I’ve wanted to make a friend so badly but my social anxiety is so bad that the last time I hung out with people on new years day I had a horrible panic attack, unlike any attack I’ve had before, and blacked out, I felt extremely disoriented, and I lost all motor skills. I wasn’t able to move or see at all for I don’t even know how long, and had to spend the rest of New years in my car. I don’t even know why it happened, I was with my cousin and his friends and I didn’t even feel bad it just happened suddenly and everyone there was accusing me of being on drugs. I am trying so hard to be positive but I have no one and I see no meaning in my life. I’m unemployed and only feel like a burden to my mom who is struggling financially. The only thing keeping me here right now is her. She just lost her husband and I don’t want her to lose me too. But I am just so sick and tired. I don’t even feel alive, like I’m stuck in a limbo of misery. My mom wants me to see a therapist and take anti-depressants but Iv’e already been to 3 therapists and tried anti-depressants to no avail. If anything they just made me feel worse. I miss myself. I just want to be the girl I was before depression but I don’t know how. If I can’t even find the motivation to get up in the morning then how the hell will I be able to dig myself out of this deep hole ? I have so many questions and this world can’t answer any of them. So what’s the point ? What reason is there to go on if I’m just going to be miserable every day ? Even if I start to feel better, there will always be some tragedy, something that will remind me how much I want to leave this pathetic existence. It never gets better. That’s what therapists don’t tell you. They don’t tell you that suffering will always be there.Depression will always hang over you like a dark brooding cloud or like a never-healing wound on your heart. If people live for the good things in life then why can’t I die for the bad ?

    • James says:

      I’m sorry to hear about the challenges you have experienced in life.
      Please take some time and watch this TED TALK. Let me know if it helps.


    • Anonymous says:

      Have you tried meditation? Looking into the mysteries of the universe? This helped me a lot, it almost saved me but I have dug myself in a hole again and I don’t know if I can get out this time… I have physical and mental ailments and I seem to always hit rock bottom again…. But remembering that I have taken myself out this many times before is comforting except this time I’m afraid, I don’t know if I can…. I took an anxiety pill and a sleeping pill just now my poor mother gave me but I find myself here replying to you. You seem like you have been hurt and tortured and that’s rough, it really takes a toll on you mentally, and staying in those relationships that long left a lot of damage. Forgive yourself for letting people mistreat you. Forgive yourself for letting yourself mistreat you. It seems like the best way to live is to stop doing all the things that hurt us, the problem is we go back, and back, and back again… I wish you a lot of luck and send you love and light. Hope this message does something for you, I kind of feel it may be doing something for me.

    • Minax Allore says:

      If it makes you feel any better, the whole conception of “being a burden” is ableist, classist and generally oppressive as hell. Can you get on any form of government assistance?

  182. Miss says:

    If you’re going to die horribly or you live paralyzed you should have the choice to die peacefully. I personally would rather die than live my life useless and old, later in my 70’s and up. I’ve had depression since I was 4. Every day of my life I’ve questioned if I’d be missed if I was gone… It’s been coming to my attention however… That people will only miss what i do for them… Nobody will miss me. If i fell asleep and never woke up, it would be the best thing for me. Saving me from my abusive parents and boyfriend…

    • Minax Allore says:

      Ableist, ageist. Even among people in the disability community who do support assisted suicide, they seem to have a very different understanding of what severely disabled means compared to able-bodied people’s beliefs. Just consider when you you make statements like that you are devaluing elderly people and paralyzed people as groups.

  183. B says:


    Your post really hit home. I was exposed to toxic mold three years ago, and no matter what I try, I can’t get well. Like you, dancing and being active was my solace. Now, I am a shadow of my former self. Happiness is relative, and unless I get my body healthy, it is not within my grasp. I cannot accept the fact that a negligent landlord let their property poison me, and I couldn’t find a lawyer to sue. It’d be one thing if I was cured and FULLY regained my health, but that is not the case.

    The truth is we all want to live, but there is no point if we can’t be happy.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      Toxic mold is dreadful, and it’s grossly unfair that you were exposed to it by a landlord’s negligence and now have to deal with the consequences while, I presume, the landlord bears none. So I want to be clear that I empathize with your pain. But I also want to challenge you to consider whether there could be a point to life even amid unhappiness. I think it’s a distinctly American, or at least Western, notion that life isn’t worth living if we aren’t happy. It defies the reality that suffering is a part of life. Some people suffer in ways that we can’t see; others suffer grotesque tragedies; others seem to live a charmed existence until suddenly their luck runs out. Yet there is still meaning and value to be found in living, even in the absence of happiness. In fact, the idea that we must be happy gives rise to lots of unhappiness! It sets us up to fail.

      If you’re into this kind of thing, I recommend a self-help book called The Happiness Trap, by Russ Harris. It describes my sentiments above but much more fully and much more articulately than I can do. If you do read it, I hope that it is of some help to you.

    • philocipher says:

      This is to B (or, not to B…if the shoe fits…)
      I agree with you on philosophical grounds. The sort of person who says we have aught to live for than happiness, is the sort who says we have ways of knowing outside of ontological empiricism, or ways of understanding outside of causal, formal epistemic logic. In other words, we benefit by other than satisfaction of desire, we apprehend by other than the senses, we explain by other than axioms linked by instrumental teleology. Just like Nazis and Bolsheviks (allegedly ‘opposite’ ends of the left-right spectrum) are both totalitarian, it’s all part of the same disease, same delusion. If you can’t want something for someone you love, you can’t want it for yourself. Whoever wants to overthrow logic, epicureanism, empiricism etc needs to step into the breach and propose someother framework-and spiritualism is too nebulous and ineffable to be a framework.
      Since you can’t want misery (duh, you can’t want your desires yo be thwarted!) I posit that miserable people should have the full benefit of modern convenience at their disposal, and not have to resort to painting the wall, or the sidewalk. In a word, barbituates. We should be able to leave this world with more clarity, dignity and volition than what manifested itself as our, ah, recruitment. Thhings may get better, but we shouldn’t be forced to tread water until they do, we shouldn’t have to reconcile ourselves, and ‘make do’, if they don’t. Perhaps, perhaps, life is not worth the hassle. Every day a wrassle. You seem to be beholden unto urges you cannot service. Cut your losses, eff your bosses!

  184. Geraldine says:

    I feel you, guys, and only those that really have reasons to commit suicide understand what youre going through. I write to you now in physical pain, I suffer from herniated disc and I dont know how much I will stand living in pain. I have 24 yrs old, and I live in a sick and degenerated body (I also have problems with my knees). And this isn’t even all the sad story. Since I was born I was literally ALONE, with abusive parents that never cared about me, my happiness, that never supported me. I also faced human hostility from early ages, and this hasnt changed in time. And because of financial problems and my damaged physical state I am still living with my parents. My father wish I was dead, even if I stay in the same place with him, for example, he doesn’t even know what I have, what my sicknesses are. He even laughed at me when I was in great pain and when I could barely walk. Many people would have comitted suicide if they were in my position, but well, I am still here. I want to learn programming, but I can’t even concentrate with my pain, which gets worse, and my parents dont even help me with money for treating myself.

    My mother was always around when my father said how he wished I was dead, but she never did anything. She never did anything even when I said to her I wanted to commit suicide.

    I am a fun person to be with, dancing and sports were my life, and from almost a year now I am just sitting home not being able to practice sports, dancing, these being the only things that kept me going, and made me forget about all the shitty people and shitty things in my life. I can’t live in a sick and degenerated body, I keep thinking that even if I go to treat myself, things won’t be the same. I will still have limitations and I can’t stand limitations. I have the music and dancing in my blood, and I could have done a lot of things if I were phisically healthy.

    I dont need psychologists, I just want my body back. I want to get out of here, from this house , from these monsters that hate me, I want to just live my life. There are people that have all: good parents, money, friends that care for them, but for some of these people what they have isn’t enough and it just kills me to hear this. I got nothing.

    I am just not made to struggle to live in physical pain and in a sick body, like those that live in a wheelchair, for example. Most of them have great families, friends to support them. I am alone.

    So, if my life wasn’t good and I wasn’t truly happy until this age, why will it get better in the future? It will be the same, I am sure.
    Happiness is not for me. I just want peace and quiet and no pain anymore. I am afraid to try the conventional stuff that lead to suicide, because I want it to be permanent, not to suffer after or being permanently damaged. I want to shoot myself in the head or heart, but I dont have a gun. I just need to get one. But I am also afraid if hell does exist. This is again, very unfair. This is not a life to live for…this world isn’t for me.

    I dont want big things in life to be happy, just good parents that love me, support me emotionally and a healthy body, to have the energy to do many things for me and for others. I just don’t even have the small things to enjoy in life…

    I just dont know what to say to you trying to end this post, I just wanted to tell you that I understand your pain, and it is sad that life is so unfair. It;s unfair that those that deserve to be happy, that are good people, that didn’t do anything wrong to anyone, just receive constant suffering. I am very sorry and I get sad and angry everytime I read a person wants to commit suicide, or if I read or hear someone is treated really bad by others. I really hope there is out there a place for us, to feel true happiness at least one day, to really know how it is to be happy, with no pain, with no bad people around you.

    I love you all and I wish I was with all of you to offer a big hug. Because you deserve it, and more than that.

  185. RohanR says:

    Situations at times can be very difficult and even impossible to get out of for some people – some people like me. I have tried to commit suicide three times. Though I didn’t succeed but I will try again. I didn’t regret once any of those three times. The thing is, I understand the circumstances I am in, the near-impossibility of any future opportunity, prejudices (which don’t hold even the slightest truth of mine) against me & the mental pain inflicted on me by my solitude and inability to be free. I am living alone in two rooms for 2.5 continuous years without even going outside once. It’s impossible for me to get hold of myself now especially without any friend or relative.
    It’s just not worth living, you know. Some people are just unlucky, it doesn’t matter how good they are in heart or in their acts, for world it is just about materials and your inheritance – your race, nationality etc. I might come across as some depressed reclusive guy. But I am neither depressed nor reclusive. I am just perfectly aware of my position in society – in life, and I am a reluctant lonely person.
    I believe it is a person’s right to commit suicide if the situations are just terrible and they are most certainly are going to be that way.
    So yeah, yeah that’s it I guess…

  186. Give me emotion anyday says:

    I wish I could feel any of the emotional and human pain that you all are going through. I’ve become detached from this world. I question every medical and scientific thing. I question EVERYTHING. Even how I’m writing this right now. Or that we are meant to live as long as we do. Or the concept of time itself. I never sleep. I go into a weird deluded state that I experience odd things happen. . I wouldn’t call it the sleep that you would all know. . . I would rather be hurting over lost loves or not getting a job. Than THIS. Nobody knows what happens after death or what death even is. What if we somehow continue on in this awareness? Even passed what we call death. I wish so much that I had been born an animal blessed with the ability to love and care coz then I’d probably not question of every God damn thing. My body is slowly deterioting at my supposed age of 23. Hair does not wash properly and is falling out, I wash and still smell. My breath stenches even though I basicallly starve myself as I don’t see the need to eat anymore or that it even gives me pleasure. I am jealous of you all that can cry or FEEL anything. Or even get sick and believe the doctor of your symptoms. And not question humanity and its existence. Or to even SWEAT and feel the real burn of excercise. Yes I am basically a pyschopath. A dysfunctional one. What people experience while on antidepressants is what I have become permanently.

    • I use to b exactly where you are now. Download a copy of the Kabalion. It is hard reading but I promise you, everything will make sense. Then go read up on the research of Dr. Ian Stevenson. For me it was like someone has finally put the lights on after a lifetime of darkness.

    • Minax Allore says:

      I don’t know if you have sociopathy. It sounds like you have psychosis and dissociation.

  187. Jim says:

    I don’t care about people. I never have. I can leave almost anyone behind me without a look back. My dog was always my best friend and only real companion. I just lost my beautiful dog to cancer. The pain of the loss is unbearable. I had to make the most painful decision of my life when her pain got so bad she couldn’t get off the bed. I had to say good-bye. I had to put my pain off to the side and do the right thing for her. I simply couldn’t let her suffer any more. I love her too much for that. It was the strangest feeling knowing that I was basically scheduling my dogs death. I called the vet who would come to the house to do it. I had a time and it was scheduled. It was surreal. I knew I had only a few hours left with my best friend, my companion. I am not suicidal, although I do see the appeal some times, like now. I not writing this because I want to die. I just think its strange how we deal with human life/death so differently from a pets life/death. Why is that exactly. No one I know would argue with my decision to end my dogs suffering. If she was human, things would have been very different. I think that’s odd.

    • philocipher says:

      People feel that humans are special somehow. Furthermore people are much more afraid of death than dogs (who have never been seen to evince a belief in an ‘afterlife’). If the suicide rate went up an order of magnitude-if a fraction of the comfortably numb zo(mbie)loft adherents cut out the BS/middleman, if substance-dependants on welfare put their suicide from ‘slow’ to ‘fast’…well, that might make the pretentious picket fence bougie set and their coffeehouse existentialsim ring a little hollow. Therefore, denying corporations and bureaucracies their god-given right to your labor is obviously crazy (psychology is one of the few sciences that defines ‘normal’ as ‘correct’, and is prescriptive rather than descriptive.). For the record I don’t care about people either, but I do pity us. What a life! What a planet!

    • Beth says:

      When my best friend/dog had to go (similarly) I became numb. I am still numb.
      Some months later I took in a dog who’d been unwanted. I didn’t have any glorious thoughts or expectations. It was because I figured I might as well help another dog get a bit of comfort and hope as long as she was stuck here on this planet with uncaring people.
      I am still heartbroken over my best friend/dog’s leaving, and will always be.
      I came across your note – I do not know why or how, but you touched the mutual brokenness. This is a tough harsh world to get through alone.

    • Minax Allore says:

      Dogs don’t have a sense of self and losing that identity through loss of life. Assisted suicide also oppresses disabled people and endangers their lives, which are already devalued. Including by most of the suicidal, mentally ill people on this page. It’s sad. I deal with mental illness which I had a lot longer before my disability and I don’t hold ableist views around suicide like many mentally ill people do. They are the most likely to tell disabled people that they would kill themselves if they were like us. http://www.xojane.com/issues/assissted-suicide-leans-towards-helping-non-disabled-people

  188. Chris says:

    I am a homeless South African male. Although I have been professionally tested having exceptional intelec, I am a failure. Not because of drug or alcohol abuse or even criminal activity but just because I tried to follow my lifelong dream of becoming a writer without any family support. I have written a 100 000 word novel without any training in novel writing and am now stuck with a manuscript that I cannot send anywhere because it has not been edited. I can hardly afford to feed me and my wife, so having my manuscript edited or getting any form of training is a million miles away.

    To me this is a reason for suicide. I am on a road that leads nowhere, with no help and no options. Who wants to live a life of always being hungry, always being in pain, living with constant regret, living with an all consuming envy when people around you with lesser ability gets all the opportunity because they have money. It took me a year to finish this book, a year of living in caves, washing cars to eat, walking 12 miles to spend only the allowable 30 minutes a day in a public library in order to write, and all for nothing.

    We have approached religious institutions, social institutions, friends and family but to no avail. The government’s current policy does not allow help for people of our ethnic group.

    So there is only one way out. I don’t WANT to die, I am not depressed, but any rational mind would realise that when faced with a choice of dying miserably on the street or taking your life in an instant, it just makes sense to pick the quick exit.

    • Carol Kallas says:

      Wow. I’m not a certified copy editor but I have helped a friend self publish three books. I am a good copy editor, I read constantly and have a good grasp of the English language. If you wish to engage my services, contact me.

    • Hi Carol,

      How can I get in contact with you?

    • philocipher says:

      I haven’t watched tv, pirated a series etc since 2008. Around that time I got well-versed at navigating project gutenberg. I then realised that I will never read all the good books in the world, much less give voltaire et fil their multiple readings they require. Since so much of literature these days is based on hype and summer paperbacks, an opus such as yours would be pearls before swine. My only regret would be for your wife who commisserated, and for any children who may see more to you than socioeconomic distress. I have been reading up on supplements and organic food, and the SOuth African retail scene seems fairly active. Websites like gumtree or whatever lower barriers to entry, I would recommend you look into things like probiotics, black soldier flies,pnsb compost etc that with a little jargon slinging and quick setup can get you some backers. I’m a Kenyan, ashamed of what those Bolsheviks have done to South Africa. I know it’s a tough time for poor whites with no connections, but if you have any hope to turn things around realise that they may need you as a voice against the ills and excesses of the post-Apartheid pendulum.

    • Seeker says:

      If you written the book already I’m not sure why you don’t epublish it online or something

  189. Lorraine says:

    Suicide shouldn’t be prevented if the person has ongoing pain etc for years
    It is their choice
    That sentence suicide is a temporary choice etc does nothing for the person
    I am that person and I want out

  190. Anonymous says:

    I have this constant feeling of wanting to leave this world, most of my adult life has been an empty hole inside so deep that I cannot feel anything, been on more medications, herbs, therapy and even hospitals than I can remember but nothing seems to work, I get instantly sick from meds I have to stop them, I am 44 years old and has never had a girlfriend, as my thoughts are so emotional, I envy those that are so inspirational in life, but it scares the hell out of me, I am really a loner and feels I don’t fit in this society, I yearn for the days of my youth, and wish I could live in the past, I really feel this is my destiny. in my mind to pass on is what I truly want.

  191. Anonymous says:

    I appreciate what you’re doing Dr. Stacey. I would share with the class but at this moment I’m just not feeling up to the task. It’s just really hard going through this every minute of every day. I’m starting to become catatonic.Seriously.

  192. T says:

    I have suffered from severe depression for years and have attempted suicide 4 times. I have good days and bad, but my bad days mostly out weigh my good days. I have never been married, never had a real relationship, or
    dated a woman over 3 weeks and that hurts very much. I have so many problems mentally and physically that I don’t have enough room to tell half. I look all around me and see other people enjoying their lives with out a care in the world. Now my emotional state has turn to anger and hatred. I feel suicide should be a free choice because living in emotional pain day after day is not fun. Medication only blur the reality of my awful life, thats the equivalent of putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. My biggest fear is turning into a crazed serial killer from years of hurt. My opinion is suicide is a better idea than turning into a real life Michael Myers. The ones that always say suicide is a bad decision don’t have the right to say that because they don’t know how a person feels or what that person goes through day after day. I truly wish that suicide prevention people could stand in the shoes of the ones that suffer emotional pain for a few weeks and to see how they would cope with it.

    • Anonymous says:

      You have a huge point, and vice versa, I feel like if we were in other peoples shoes we would do what they did.

  193. Ron says:

    I have major depression and have had it for years. Sometimes it abates in severity to some extent but I still feel it. I am never ok. I never feel good and most days I feel terrible. Why should I go on living? I remember that many years ago I was not depressed but it just makes me sad to know that those days will never return. I am miserable, but perhaps not quite miserable enough to kill myself. But if it got just a little worse I think I would want to die. Why encourage those with miserable lives to just keep going. Life is only good if you feel good. I approve of suicide for those who suffer greatly with no end in sight. I think we need a suicide encouragement website. Ron

    • Amelia says:

      I agree with you Ron. Although most people don’t want to hear it, I think suicide should be a choice for people who have suffered relentlessly for years. I’ve been on many meds. None have worked. I’ve seen therapists, read, books, and journaled towards positivity, etc; nothing has worked permanently. I’ve suffered social anxiety for decades. I’ve aimed for the stars in college and made good marks, but failed because you need more than those to succeed in a career; you need to know people, talk to people. When I try to network, my heart races, my thoughts swirl into some weird pool of haze and I can barley speak. And, of course, I then ruminate over any interaction and how I failed for days. Hence, I have a degree, but can barley survive a low paying hourly job any high school kid could do. And of course I’ve watched all those around me go on to lead normal, successful lives while they look at me with shame and spew positive ignorance. Beyond the anxiety, there’s depression, the type that leaves you numb. I am aware of the emotional, economic, and personal mess my life has become, but it’s like I can’t even stop it if I try. Plus, I am infertile and have never been married, so there’s no real obligation here. My life has been series of hoping, failing, hoping, trying, failing, etc…. Sometimes the answers aren’t in textbook definitions. While I appreciate the efforts of caring individuals, why are people so intent on keeping chronically depressed or anxious individuals in a state of limbo between sort of ok and paralyzed. My depression isn’t new either. I’ve suffered since I was a very small child. I believe it would actually be less of a societal burden to let those who have suffered from chronic mental illness to participate in assisted suicide. But that’s a pipe dream I guess. I feel like many of us are made to suffer not as a prevention for our own good, but as a means for others to prevent facing any sadness or guilt they may feel as a result. Granted there are fantastic mental health providers out there who make differences in many people’s lives, and people should certainly give that a go first, but there are also many of us out here suffering endlessly despite efforts to get better. It’s just not fair and makes little logical sense. I especially love when people tell one to be positive and it will get better after decades of it NOT getting better despite every effort.

  194. Ted says:

    If a person wants to die that is their choice no one elses, hopefully I’ll be dead soon my health is deteriorating anyway, these idiots who try to stop other people from dying really annoy me who do these people think they are, they don’t care about that person they just want to play hero so they get famous.

  195. Anonymous says:

    It should be a choice, I thought about it for a long time before attempting. But unfortunately I’m still here. I remember hearing the nurse tell my mom she knew i was awake because i was crying. My mom said it is because I was feeling bad. I was so drugged up that I couldn’t speak but inside was screaming I’m not sad I’m angry, this was my choice and they took it away. Locked in a hospital and drugged up to “feel better” got out and still feel the same.

  196. kerri says:

    I’m 36 and I attempted suicide at 19. I should have died. Since then I’ve engaged in reckless behavior hoping to die without exactly trying. Of course my life has had some good things in the time since I was hospitalized. Unfortunately I honestly wish I would have died at 19. If I’d known my life would be what it is today I would have seriously tried again. I know that’s not what people want to hear and I wish it weren’t true. It is true though and lately it’s been harder to keep myself from giving up.

    • philocipher says:

      BUTBUTBUTBUT 90% of suicide attempters don’t die of suicide! /s I’m sure many overdoses, accidents etc are hidden in that rubric but whatever. If you want intelligent discussion without an agenda of condescention, look up SanctionedSuicide on Reddit, lots of intelligent, empathic, miserable people. Party like it’s 1999!

  197. Zukti says:

    I survived a suicide attempt six years ago. And even now after coping, fake smiles, I wish I had died. Its just useless for people who have no hope.

    • Anonymous says:

      Totally agree with you. And from experience I can honestly say that the older one gets, the less hope there is. Finally, there is no hope at all. Things to NOT get better.

    • I think, what we’ve got here, is the most honest collection of replies on the topic of suicide to be found anywhere on the internet. Real people with real experience. Speaking from their life experience rather than prescribed knowledge or narrow observation. Maybe one day we will see a shift from this old fashioned backwater thinking.

    • Zukti says:

      David Foster Wallace- Infinite Jest

      “The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”

  198. Brittany M says:

    I believe that suicide is ethical. Yeah you may think that drugging someone to the point where they cannot function is “saving their life”. In reality all you are doing is prolonging their suffering.

  199. Anonymous says:

    I read this to the end and every “I’m sorry you are in such pain” comes off as smug, condescending, and leads back to the false conviction that “it can always get better, just wait it out.” The psychiatric and medical fields do good work, but the flip side is the profit they make from the untreatable illnesses. Being an oblivious over-medicated zombie is not a quality alternative.

    • Anonymous says:

      I’ve looked at this from every angle and in the end it is a person’s right to choose. Now the post below I agree with 100 percent. Take my situation into account. I’m fully aware, do not have a mental illness, but I’m being stripped of my independence due to a neurological condition that we cannot diagnose or treat. I’ve been dealing with this for years and now it’s getting to a point where I don’t know how long I’ll walk. I’ve paid over 25000 in premiums for excellent health insurance in the past 6 years or so, not including copays. I was forced to take a reduced health insurance plan with a deductible. So now comes the financial issues. Do I squander our savings to hope that another physician can figure it out? No, I’ve been there and done it. I’ve been all over Florida and they thought I was full of shit. I got a life insurance plan as soon as the symptoms got worse. 2 year suicide clause which passed in September. 2 actually for a total of 150000 not including my works policy. I recommended doing this for anyone with a serious undiagnosed medical condition. The media says people shouldn’t commit suicide due to illnesd because it prevents advances in cures or treatment. BS. Dixtors , most, do not have time or care about patients. Its about money. Do you know how many oncologists said they wouldn’t do chemotherapy if they were diagnosed? Do some research. There’s a business in sickness not cures. One thing frustrating is that the pro suicide states will not grant approval if an individual is depressed but must have 6 months or less not to live to qualify. Who the fuck would not be sad about this? Look, I love my family and wife, but I will go out when I see fit. I’ve done the resesrch, my will is all set, my medical requests are good to go. When I go it will not be close to a holiday or anywhere where family has to go. I’ll prepay for my funeral as well. I want to alleviate financial and burden as much as possible. It sucks, I’m not even 30. I’m in pain everyday and losing my coordination and ability to walk. I don’t blame God for anything. I just hope for once people see the other side to this. Why try to live life as a vegetable and leave my family 100s of thousands in debt when I can pay the house and car off and be remembered for who I am today. This is a touchy subject I get it, I just wanted to provide a different point of view.

  200. Anonymous says:

    Yes and No. When you consider the dude who will never ever get better or what about the person who has never been able to earn a living for the last four years; who lives in a shelter; works her body off for a bunch of ungrateful dudes and dudettes..who sends off 30 to 60 CVs off ever week and gets no replies!!!The one day she does get a reply some piece of garbage pinches her note book;do you think she should end her days – she lives on a disability has five years to pension, but no one will employ her????

  201. Anonymous says:

    Life is evil and cruel in every way in my opinion, and life is a parasite of bad problems one right after another because people can be parasitical The ones that want you to live to line there pockets with money, one of the only reasons why people don’t want you to commit suicide is because it robs them the chance to get money from you, therefore life is PARASITICALLY EVIL because people mostly care about money over people who don’t want to be here anymore….

    • philocipher says:

      It may not be as eloquent as thomas ligotti’s MALIGNANTLY EVIL, but parasitically evil is fairy apropos. Check out Inmendham and his quadrivium vitae-consumption, reproduction, cannibalism and addiction. In closing, always remember, vita is latin for life, but swahili for war. Guard your loins!

  202. Anonymous says:

    Why, when life is so horrible, and we have no one, do we cling to life? Wouldn’t it be better to just end the constant pain?

  203. anonymous says:

    I’m Case 1 of a very rare condition with an extremely poor prognosis. My life has been an endless series of medical mishaps and nightmares. It seems the only person who benefited from my “miraculous” survival was the original sugeon who wound up capitalizing on my struggles and courage…Hardly a case of “a temporary problem”. I’m sick of that bumper sticker bullshit saying. Walk a mile in my shoes!

  204. CK says:

    Izera and MNRW,

    I think sometimes people have genuinely good intentions and desires to help. When we experience suicidal ideation, I see it as our body’s way of telling us how much emotional pain we’re in and our body’s response of desperately looking for a way to make the pain go away. Our brains tell us that suicide would fix that problem for us. And they’re right in that if we die our pain would go away; however, our brains also make us feel like that is the only option. When people suggest reaching out or that we are not alone, I don’t see that as uninformed. I see that as a way of encouraging us to find support to challenge our brains’ desperate perspectives, as our brains are so overwhelmed that there is no way we can do it all by ourselves. With that said, not everyone gets it, you’re right. Not everyone can help. And I’ve had my fair share of professionals, friends, and other supports who have no idea how to respond in a way that actually helps me feel better (and sometimes some of these interactions have made it all worse). But I have also learned that is not true for every person. There are people who genuinely care and who know how to respond in ways that are actually helpful. (If I was reading this post three years ago, at this point I probably would have said something like, ‘Yeah right…okay…you keep telling yourself that’ and left the page or stopped reading the comment assuming the person who wrote this comment had no idea what they were talking about. Do me a favor even though I have done nothing to earn it, and please just keep reading.) I know it can be extremely frustrating and frankly exhausting to continue to try to reach out for help and have it fail or not work out the way we expected/needed it to. And I understand that when it doesn’t work out, it reinforces how shitty we feel about ourselves and how we should just end it all. I get the feelings helplessness and hopelessness, like it’s never going to get better anyway and no one can help me so what’s the point. And I also know when I found that professional who actually got it, who understood what I was talking about, who wasn’t afraid to talk about it, who didn’t threaten me with hospitalization, who partnered with me to understand and challenge my thoughts, who didn’t look down on me or pity me, who helped me improve my self-esteem and feel purpose again for the first time in a very long time, and who genuinely cared about me, everything changed. My thoughts didn’t have power over me anymore. They didn’t completely go away for a while, but they also didn’t completely overwhelm me. Yes, this is only one person’s experience, and I can’t/won’t negate or minimize the experiences that you have that have taught you that you can’t trust anyone, other people don’t get it, and nothing will get better. All I can do is explain that I was there right with you, and I didn’t believe there was hope either. But I was proved wrong, and the first step for me was reaching out for support from someone who specialized in suicidality. I obviously can’t make the decision for you on whether or not you’re going to live or die, as that’s up to you, but if killing yourself is always an option, would it hurt to try and see if other options exist that could help relieve the intense pain you are experiencing without needing to completely take your entire life away? You’ve been in pain for a long time from the sounds of it. What’s another couple months to find a specialist or someone who understands to see if there’s anything else that may be able to help lift some of the weight and pain first? It may take some time, and please don’t expect to find someone on the first attempt necessarily. Finding a good fit is not always easy. For me, if there is a chance that I may be able to live life without feeling so much pain, then the effort I put in is worth it. I at least have to try all my options first. Now you get to decide if it may be worth it for you as well.

    With much understanding and love,


  205. Hey there MNRW, I’m hearing you.
    I dont know what the motivation is behind it all is but where ever you turn, there seems to be someone waiting with the same uninformed responses.
    Perhaps its that many people want the ego medallion of being the person who made a difference without actually lifting an unpaid finger while all the while cleverly justifying themselves and their noble cause whenever pulled up on it.
    Things do not get better simply because someone “reached out” or because an unforeseen amount of time has passed.
    How long is that time? How long is reasonable to wait?
    As if time ever fixed anything.
    And reached out to who?
    A “professional” with a head full of prescribed information and the blinkered results that achieves and in turn reinforces over their span of a career.
    People, please please please…..if you do nothing else to “help”…..please, just stop trying to help.
    There are real people with real problems that do not need the added confusion and turmoil that your comfortable position brings along.
    If someone comes to you seeking help, then go all out, but otherwise please ease off this whole anti suicide kick.

  206. MNRW says:

    Please, please, please, everyone: stop saying “reach out.” Stop putting the onus on those already blinded by and buried in their pain to get help. Stop assuming it’s easy to burden yet one more person with insurmountable pain. Stop foisting people off on the mental health “care” system or the police. If you’re not willing to show up for hurting people in real tangible and reliable ways, then please don’t say things like “reach out” or “you are not alone.” Don’t say things you’re not willing to consistently and kindly prove.

  207. Matt says:

    Hi i am matt, i would like to share my story with you. I am activally suicidal and have been this way for about 6 or 7 months. So very sure its what i want. There is so many ways, and none are easy. Anyway im going broke no, job im discusting, and heartbroken. I should be dead already, feels like i got nothing to live for. Im lonely all the time. Forget how to even really talk to girls. I sit at home in a discusting room and play video games as my distraction. Knowingly how much of a loser i am for doing it. As for my ex she was great, really no other girl could be like that. She did so much for me and was my first serious gf. She didn mind the acne on my chest and face or my lisp. Would drive me places. Sleep over everynight, and i totally took her for granted. We were together 4.5 years now she wont even talk to me. Im pretty sure she found a better looking guy with a car and a job and all that. What would have been our 5 year anniversary just came up. I had planned to die on this day cause of the emotional pain is too great. But a few new friends got me out of house. I still plan to do this soon. All the time that went by i still have all this on my mind and know im a complete loser like a lil kid not knowing how to do shit relying on others. And a complete lazy good for nothing asshole. Everynight i sleep and hope i never wake up. If only it was that easy.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      You are clearly hurting terribly. I hope you won’t mistake the way you feel now with the way you will feel forever. The future is, as they say, still unwritten.

      Please reach out for help. Do you have a physician, therapist, or trusted friend or family you can confide in? If not, please find a professional who can help you, or use some of the resources that I list on this site at http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/resources/#immediatehelp. In particular, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is available 24/7, at 1.800.273.8255 (TALK). And if you are in immediate danger, please call 911 or go to an emergency room.

      Even though your pain sounds excruciating right now, it is possible for things to change. I hope you will give life — and yourself — that chance.

    • Felecia says:

      Hi Matt,

      I’m so sorry you are hurting right now. I would just like to encourage you to reach out and talk to someone about how you feel. Maybe spend a little more time getting out and about with your new friends? It was great of them to get you out of the house on a rough day, very thoughtful and caring of them. Please don’t be afraid to speak up or call 1-800-273-talk. You can even text “go” to 741-741.
      Even though you are in pain now, I hope you remember that this rough patch is just temporary.

    • Anna says:


      I felt exactly all those things you talked about. It felt like the downward spiral was neverending. I wished that I was dead like my two friends were (both from suicide), and there were many times that I wished I was brave like them, that I had the courage to do what they did.

      One of my best friends from high school felt like you, like the dark tunnel was neverending. Sadly, even though I tried to help and even tried to talk her out of it, she went on and committed suicide. 16 years later, another close friend of mine took his own life. I sat and thought for the longest time, why, when they had everything going for them. The pain of losing them was nothing like I ever felt before, and there will always be questions that I, and their families and friends, will ask time and again and remain unanswered.

      There were so many, many reasons why I wanted to end my life and planned it so many times before. Even after having my children and dealing with issues that I don’t ever wish on happening to anybody, I still felt like I didn’t want to live anymore. Then I thought, no I don’t want to miss this or miss that even though I felt like I was no good person who couldn’t do anything right. I decided to start with just one goal, to finish college. It took me nearly six years to do it, but I have finished and am graduating in a few days. I am slowly learning that it is okay to take one step at a time, that things eventually work out. Some took longer than others, and sometimes life took a different direction, and that was also okay even though it didn’t seemed like it at first.

      Things may seem so overwhelming right now, but believe me when I say, things will start looking up for you again. You may think that nobody loves you, but they do – your family, your friends, anyone who has met you. You have your whole life ahead of you and I don’t want you to miss anything that life has to offer. Suicide may look like a quick solution, but the grief of all the people who love you will be forever. Please, give yourself a chance and get help.

    • Jenn says:

      Hi Matt
      You are NOT a loser. Your girlfriend wouldn’t have stayed in a relationship with you for 4.5 years if she didn’t love you, find you interesting and fun to be with. She obviously didn’t think you are a loser, because you’re not. I’m sorry it didn’t work out between you two. Sometimes that happens. But your life has value. You have friends who care about you. You will find a job someday. It’s rough right now because you have a lot of negatives going on in your life and I can totally understand your viewpoint.

      Couple of things that might help:
      1. Get out with your friends on a regular basis. Be around people who like you – and there are plenty.
      2. Volunteer to serve others. Could be at a homeless shelter or soup kitchen or visit old people in nursing home who have no family to visit them, or volunteer with a local church group. It’s the connections with others that helps us find friends and meaning in our life. I run a nonprofit and we are always needing volunteers. I cherish my volunteers very much. It means a lot to others.
      3. Find help by calling a suicide hotline. Keep calling them.
      4. Find a support group. Know that you are NOT alone. There are lots of folks who feel the way you do.
      5. Know you are loved. I don’t know you, but I love you and feel your pain.
      6. Never give up. Promise me, okay?


    • Roger says:

      Hi Matt,

      I hope you get to read these messages, it is an amazing privilege to have this space and opportunity to have this conversation – thank you to the team behind it.

      I can relate to the pain you describe and daily struggle with suicidal thoughts. I can only assure you are not alone in these and many people truly do know the suffering you describe. It’s a horrible place to find yourself in and the way thoughts of dying come automatically is frightening, and the whole experience can be exhausting.
      If you ride it out it will get better, it will take time but it is worth it, life does get better. A good friend or counsellor can help

      For me, music saved my life, also picking up a ‘one liner’ here or there in sites and forums like this that stick in my mind when I go through difficult periods – they still come and go but are less intense than in the past, and I guess I have learned to live with the thoughts.

      The line ‘this too shall pass away’ often comes to mind from a song I like.

  208. Maysie says:

    I was first diagnosed with depression 23 years ago and apart from the first 4 years of many hospital admissions and ECT while there had remained stable for the remainder of my 19 years of an abusive marriage, albeit taking tricyclics since diagnosis. However 7 years since that separation, and a diagnosis of PTSD which severely limits my life and has distressing symptoms, the depression has become recurrent depressive disorder and I have periods of being flat with no energy or pleasure in anything and periods of deeply suicidal lows and have made many suicide attempts. One was a serious attempt that failed, just. Since then when only my youngest adult child was living at home, after hearing yet another rant from her about how people with depression are so self centred and selfish and difficult to live with, I suggested that it might be better if she lived elsewhere. She went to live with my eldest son the next day. Since then all the children have disowned me, and say they don’t want to see or hear from me for the rest of their lives. They said the same to their father when we separated 7 years ago and they still want nothing to do with him 7 years later, I know they mean this. I’ve apologised, offered to have her home, feed her, do her washing, help her, give her money etc but everything is rejected and they all say they never want to see me again. This happened 5 months ago and my baby granddaughter will no longer know who I am and she and my children will no longer be part of my life. I have no other family. My eldest son said to me all those months ago that I’ve stooped to the lowest of the low asking my daughter to move out and he hopes I like it down here because it’s going to be lonely. He’s right, I’m lonely and hurting and in pain. I have always been seriously suicidal in my low phases with a large stockpile of dothiepin but now I honestly feel the quality of my life is absolute nothing. I have no friends. My children don’t want me as part of their lives anyway. Some days I cry from dawn until medication brings me blessed relief when sleep eventually comes. 23 years of depression, the last 7 of which has been horrendous and now the pain of loss and rejection from my children and granddaughter is more than I can bear. My self harming has escalated in recent weeks. I’d offered ages ago to do a sponsored walk for a charity which is in 2 weeks so I’m trying my best to wait to do that but some days are so painful it’s difficult. But after that suicide is the only way of ending this pain, no more tears, no more loneliness, no more rejection. It will all be over. I’m terrified of being stopped so am not telling people though my GP and CPN know I’m seriously low because I can’t stop crying. It’s the only way out of this pain and almost, after battling suicidal thoughts and attempts for 7 years, what better time to do it and succeed when my children never want to see me again anyway.

  209. kampampa says:

    Hi HH
    I’m truly greatfull that you took time to reply to me, wise and beautiful words indeed. While I appreciate words of encouragement, they aren’t what I’m looking for, if it was possible for me possess all the qualities that Iack i would do ANYTHING! to have them, now I can’t. The reason I posted in here is because it feels a tad better to caugh it off and this is the only place I can find people I can relate to.

    I tried not thinking too much of my ordeal, but will that make my inadequacies vanish? Its not possible to overlook my inadequacies being exposed to social situations, in which you are constantly reminded of how inferior you are. Indeed there were times in my life where I felt I had a reason to live, and that was due to my ignorance. By growing up I made unpleasant discoveries about myself and life in general.

  210. Anonymous says:

    I belieive that the reason there is a whole mentality against suicide is because if it wasnt , everyone below the richest would choose it.

    Meaning the richest would have to work or do something rather than sit on their wads of cash that they keep spending on more and more property etc etc etc to get more and more money etc etc.

    I mean, why else would people not want others to end their lives ?

    Is it not selfish for someone to say ” No you cant kill yourself because “I” would be hurt ”

    Well im sorry, but IM ALREADY BEING HURT AND I DONT LIKE IT, let me end it.

    Why should I suffer just so others can have me around ?

    Am I supposed to be a slave my whole life ? Im sick of it.

    I dont want to work anymore, I dont want anything anymore, i juast want it all to freaking end ffs.

    Why is that such a damn problem to others. LET ME DO WHAT THE FUCK I WANT.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      You obviously are hurting intensely. It’s also important to recognize that you can’t know that you will feel and think this way forever.

      Please consider reaching out for help. In North America, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline any time, any day, at 1.800.273.8255 (TALK). My website also lists other places where you can get help by phone, text, chat, or email: http://www.speakingofsuicide.com/resources/#immediatehelp.

    • philocipher says:

      The sociocultural implications of Sanctioned Suicide cannot be denied. Look at governments in the rich world, worried about what their ‘pig in the python’ demographics will do to welfare and pensions-they’re trying to subsidise breeding! That tax forms and cubicle farms may always be filled….no, obviously there is no compassion to be sought from the powers that be, once they’re done with beta-testing the next generation of robots and AI, expect mysterious plagues, disruptions in the food supply, more than fluoride in the water etc. After thinking deeply all I can come up with is just letting them have the planet. Just leave them to it! We little people have nothing to hope for.

  211. Mark C says:

    what if I said I was being held by terrorist psychopath murderers torturing me murdering my family and these psychopaths are watching deciding for me what i can do no pleasure just a hell of pain and misery, if your death helps and saves others and gets you out of an anguishing agonising miserable existence. Is it not selflessness.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      Thanks for sharing your impressions. You paint a vivid picture of the pain that a suicidal person experiences. I get tripped up by the idea that a person’s death “helps and saves others.” Frequently a suicidal person firmly believes that his or her death will help and save others, but the people whom the person wanted to help actually are absolutely devastated by the suicide. In my 20 years of working professionally with suicidal people and those who have lost a loved one to suicide, I have encountered many, many people who were convinced that they were a burden and that their suicide would be a relief to their parents, children, partners, friends, etc. And I have not encountered a single parent, child, partner, friend, etc. who agreed.

  212. kampampa says:

    I’m a 30 year old male from South Africa If it was up to me I would have never been born. Previous 30 years of my life I wanted to die but fear stood in my way. But now the situation is becoming worse, my desire to decease is becoming great and my fear for death is gradually thinning. I’m physically unappealing, in details I’m perfectly assymetric facially; I’m 5ft 1 tall and weigh 50 kilograms. I’m emotionally weak and immature, I try to change that but its impossible. The tragedy however is my moderate mental retardation, from a young age I was always an akward moron subjected to teasing by my peers and constant ridicule by my teachers. I didn’t complete school, I actually dropped out at the age 15 because of my dismal perfomances, I never went to any special school because of the financial status. I got a few dead end jobs which I quickly got as I was too slow to grasp and do anything correctly. I’m currently living with my mother (who’s losing her patience) and it pains me to be a burden to her as she warns very little but has to provide for five people including me. I don’t know how it feels to be genuinely happy; idont know how it feels like to have sex. I’m socially unacceptable and now I feel its only rational to end this pain.

    • HH says:

      Hi Kampampa

      I am a 34 year old male in Australia. I am not qualified as a psychologist, however, I have dealt with many and unfortunately mostly found them to be not so helpful. Therapy and medications have mixed results but they work well for some and progress can be made. A lot depends on you too and you should try it if you can to see for yourself.

      I recognise many of the stresses you describe in my own thoughts when I feel as you do. There is much negativity in your words, and I know this is a reflection of deep pain and desperation you must have endured for years.

      I am truly sorry for that pain. Recurring painful thoughts and emotions suck, and its so tempting to succumb to them.

      I don’t believe you really want to die, because I believe you want to really live. That means, you want to be free and you want to see yourself flourish. But the realities and impossibilities for you seem insurmountable, so you set about dismantling yourself, at the same time crying out, so that your suffering may be known.

      This is sad, this is normal and human.

      When you are ready, one step at a time.

      Recognise that a lot of your thoughts about yourself are about rationalising your pain, which is irrational.

      Remember one thing at a time. The direction you were going in that felt right, the time in your life you felt strong, or even the semblance or thought of it. The friend that gave you support.

      Relax yourself and breathe.

      As much as you can, let the bad thoughts and feelings stay there and watch them until the storm passes, without making them you. You can grow in important ways if you can do this.

      Love yourself as much as you can, no matter what anyone else thinks or is making you think about yourself.

      I know it’s all easier said than done. Do it anyway, even if you do it badly.

      Hope you start to feel better.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:

      HH, what a gift you have given here. Thank you for reaching out to Kampampa and sharing your hope and wisdom. It’s obvious that you have learned from your experiences and come upon important truths, both for yourself and for others.

    • Minax Allore says:

      Consider reading up on the disability rights movement. Many disabled people feel miserable because society is discriminatory against disabled people and we internalize that and blame their hate on ourselves.

  213. Erwin says:

    Let us assume, non-hypothetically, that a woman is perfectly rational under the influence of clozapine and aware of her mental illness. Let us further assume that other anti-psychotics are ineffective. Let us assume that clozapine usage induces probably fatal side effects in that woman. Finally, let us assume that, untreated, that woman’s schizophrenia manifests as aggressive paranoid delusions of which she is not aware, resulting in a requirement of indefinite confinement in a mental institution, most likely in a violent ward. A more likely scenario will involve a period of confinement, followed by a period of homelessness, followed by eventually permanent incarceration.

    Given this situation, I’d argue that remaining on a medication that invokes fatal immune system complications in exchange for sanity is rational. I’d also question the wisdom, assuming reasonable treatment avenues had been pursued, of preventing her suicide. Indefinite confinement as a terrified, dangerous lunatic is not necessarily preferable to death. Both, of course, are preferable to the end result in the case of an acquaintance, which resulted in the murder of a random stranger following the refusal of a judge to order institutionalization. No one was surprised. Rationally, if I were in that situation, I would consider suicide a mercy to my friends and family.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      You bring up one of the many complexities of suicide prevention: Is suicide ever rational? Is it ever justified?

      Many would agree with your comment that suicide in the situation you describe would be a rational response to intense suffering, and that such a suicide should not be prevented. There are no easy answers.

      However, one thing we do know is that the vast majority of people with schizophrenia do not die by suicide, even those who endure situations similar to the one you describe. It is worth wondering why that is so. Do such individuals experience a quality of life that those without such a condition cannot fathom? What helps people with a devastating illness maintain not only the will to live, but also the capacity for hope, love, and even joy?

      To me, those questions are most important. Millions of people in the world every day answer those questions with their actions. We need to listen to them better.

    • Erwin says:

      In an ideal world, with adequate resources, etc, I suspect that most suicides should be prevented. The test I’d be inclined to would be postulate some sort of imaginary third party who’d look at the reasonable outcomes of deciding to live and guessing whether or not its is reasonable to continue.

      Given that, there are about two instances where, even given adequate resources, I think that suicide should not be prevented.

      The first is, obviously, old age. My family has a ‘tradition’ of living long lives after crippling strokes. There’ve been no suicides, largely because they were too disabled to fight off the nurses. OTOH, refusing treatment gave them, and us, a sense of ease when they died. At some point, all you’re accomplishing is paying some stranger to torture you for reasons you can’t even understand anymore.

      The second also involves the untreatably mentally ill. When a violent, moody probably schizophrenic relative took his own life, we were devastated, and quietly grateful. We could stop worrying about him murdering his wife. She could stop being hurt. (and was loudly ecstatic) He’d lived long enough and visited enough doctors to know he couldn’t change.

      However, the current medical system in the US does not allow for adequate resources. So, I think it is also reasonable to kill yourself when the likely outcome of the resources available to you involves a significant probability of significant harm to others. Overall, it would have been better if the schizophrenic man who killed our distant neighbor had taken his own life. His parents had been pleading with a judge warning of exactly this outcome and were denied. Before my wife entered treatment, it became clear that she was becoming dangerous to children and adults. If her medication ever stops working, I wouldn’t interfere with her choices if they involved suicide. Albeit, the choice involving living with insanity is one where I’d support her decision behind a restraining order and an unlisted address.

      Lastly, for others, suicide is an awfully final choice. I suspect that, overall, most suicidal people will change their mind at some point and find that enduring pain will be worth it in the end. Initially preventing suicides makes a lot of sense to me. But, eventually, after some sort of adequate waiting period, if is it clear to a rational person that the person’s situation is unlikely to improve sufficiently to be worth living, I’d prefer that people get out of the way. Something like a suicide class…teach people healthier ways of living, offer therapy, medication, et cetera, list likely prognosis, spend a year or two, then turn off the lights.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:

      Erwin, thanks for presenting your views on what suicide should be permitted. Your ideas are cogent and compelling, far from the “all or nothing” stance that I often see in this debate – either all suicides should be permitted, or none.

      It is a complex topic, rich with opportunities for disagreement. The major catching point for me in these arguments is the notion that the situation of some people with mental illness or emotional distress is hopeless. How do they know? How do we know? How can anyone know?

      That said, I also have issues with laws that limit people’s rights to do with their body as they please, especially, as you describe, when they have a terminal illness or death is being forestalled by medical treatment.

      But often in this debate, when I think I have come upon an answer, it only gives rise to new questions, or the same ones: How do we as a society protect people who need protection from themselves, while acknowledging the right of others to surrender to a process already underway?

      And, except in cases of obvious physical deterioration, how do we know whose death is already underway, versus those whose suffering is merely a painful prelude to newfound healing and rejuvenation?

    • Erwin says:

      Well, when you have lousy, noisy measurements, you take more than one and average. Given that people change slowly and respond to medication slowly, a period of a few years is reasonable. (which really should be informed by the nature of the problem) I’d argue that that corresponds to a bit less than 10 independent measures. And, you can, to some extent, inform yourself by looking at the progression of other people in similar situations.

      The argument can be made that we don’t know anything with certainty. But, it is important to remember that, often, the degree of suffering is such that rational people would trade multiple years of life to forgo enduring a single year. So, keeping people alive for decades in many situations is almost certainly an evil act.

      That said, letting a depressed person kill themselves right off is almost certainly wasteful. I’d argue that it is worth taking some time and exploring avenues that are known to be effective first.

  214. road less traveled says:

    To say that someone with a mental illness cannot make an informed decision about thier life is wrong.
    Mental illness, like many things, has varying degrees to which it effects someone.
    If you can drive a car and have a mental illness, with all the possible risks that carries with it , then i think its fair to say that person is sound enough to decide life or death for themselves.
    To claim that deoression or alcoholism etc CAN be managed to the point where the patients quality of life and dignity are acceptable is plain wrong.
    To the people saying to get help, I mean this politely, but please stop posting “be positive….it will pass…..get help……please talk to someone…etc etc etc”.
    You have no idea what is going on, you may think you do but you dont.
    I really mean that and I want any of you who read this to stop and think about the fact that you are not in any position to give advice, you have your experiences sure, but they are not the same, proven by the fact that you got through it.
    You are talking as though there are people out there, who are easy to find, accessible and actually have the ability to make a difference to someone who has reached this point.
    The people who can actually help are rare, expensive and/or at the very least incredibly hard to find.
    True depression, not the depression caused by the consequences of foolish choices (ie bipolar), but the realization that your life is meaningless despite your greatest and most sincere efforts and motifs does not need help.
    Think about that.
    What help is there that can be given to someone who honestly realizes that they simply have no place in this world.
    Does an honest realization of personal bankruptcy need correction?
    Does anyone really think for one moment that a truly depressed person has never given life a fair try? maybe even over and above what most people would consider truly remarkable if the same persistence was displayed by someone deemed successful?
    Perhaps in many cases this realization that our lives are futile is more honesty than depression.
    We at least cannot afford the luxury of illusion.
    We are not able to fool others and maybe even ourselves, in to believing we have a great life when an honest evaluation would clearly show that most peoples lives are a sham and a lie.
    Over many years I have learned the hard way that I do not belong here, that I simply have no place.
    I cannot hold a job, I cannot manage a relationship, I have nothing to offer anyone.
    I cannot relate to people, I am insensitive, I am a poor Father, I bring division and condemnation with me where ever I go and above all I know that I cannot change.
    To my shame, this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is what I am.
    I am destitute.
    Please dont bother with….” But you have access to the internet which is a greater luxury than X% of the world etc”.
    Being thankful and being happy are not the same.
    Since when does luxury equate to personal worth and in turn happiness/contentment?
    Does that mean the more people I know and the more I have mean the happier I “should” be?
    And the line that people need you etc…..Am I supposed to suffer this lot to so as to avoid causing any ripples in the pond?
    What about others? Are they also Morally obliged to remain in a terrible situation so as not disrupt my happiness??
    Would I want your family members to remain suffering?
    Would any of you want a family member to either :
    a) suffer out a wretched life to keep you happy.
    b) get “help” (whatever that means) from a “professional” whos only claim to fame is a degree from a university and only motivation is a hefty paycheck.

    Based on experience, Id rather pass on both of those thanks.

    In an age of political correctness and mutual respect, this anti suicide thing is as backward as cultural intolerance.
    If a family member kills them self, it is my duty to respect their decision and it is their duty to respect mine should I make that choice.

    Before I go, I want to make sure that everyone understands that I am NOT saying ” Hey if things are tough. go end your life”.
    If someones reads that in, thats on their head not mine.
    What I am saying is that we are no longer living in the dark ages and big pharma (pharmaceutical companies, therapists, chemists are all a thriving industry) is making a killing on people trying to fix what cannot be fixed.
    Is suicide the answer……NO
    Is sticking things out the answer…..NO
    Is getting help the answer ……..NO
    Is there any answer…….I hope one day there will be

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:

      “Road less traveled,”

      Your suffering sounds intense, something no one should ever have to experience. It’s no wonder that suicide beckons with promises of peace and cessation of problems.

      The logical problem that I have with your comments is you say that others cannot know that things will get better. I agree. But also nobody – not even you – can know that they will *not* get better. Nobody is omniscient.

      That is why I passionately argue on the side of life – or, at least, of staying alive. Suicide is permanent. Irreversible. Staying alive leaves open the possibility for future suffering, yes, but also for future growth, hope, and healing, even when it seems impossible to envision.

      Depression itself makes such possibilities impossible to envision. But that feeling of hopelessness is a feeling. It is not a fact. Or, at least, you can’t know prospectively that it is a fact.

      You state, “To claim that depression or alcoholism etc CAN be managed to the point where the patients quality of life and dignity are acceptable is plain wrong.” I wonder if you meant to say it’s wrong to claim that depression or alcoholism can always be managed or that they can be managed by everybody, because your generalization simply is not correct. Millions of people in the U.S. alone – tens of millions, in fact – live successfully with depression, addiction, and other mental illness. Life is not an all or nothing proposition – all good or all bad. There are many, many states in between.

      Your comment indicates that you put a lot of importance on being happy. Eastern philosophies – and, increasingly, Western psychotherapies – note that the expectation that one be happy often leads to needless unhappiness. Can life have meaning without happiness? Personally, I would say yes. A good book to read in this regard is The Happiness Trap, by Russ Harris.

      Just about any book on Buddhism could also be helpful in reconciling suffering and the pursuit of happiness. In particular, I recommend Pema Chodron’s books, such as Start Where You Are and When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times. Also, anything by Thich Nhat Hanh is good, such as No Mud, No Lotus: The Art of Transforming Suffering.

      It also can be helpful to call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline if you are in North America; the number is 1.800.273.8255 (TALK). Other resources for getting help online or by phone are listed in the Resources section of this site.

      Thanks for sharing your perspective. I am sure many people agree with you, and perhaps reading your words can help them feel less alone, which itself can be a relief.

  215. H says:

    I’m in mental health, things don’t get better, my life gets worse and more painful. The most humane reason to this shitty existence is to free those who might care about me from having to endure my pain.

  216. Anonymous says:

    I have a chronic, recurrent, severe treatment resistant familial or genetic illness & the only reason suicide is a good option is because it RELIEVES pain. Suicide is not a “temporary solution” and that is exactly the point. Suicide is a permanent solution to permanent, chronic, never ending physical and mental torture. Suicide is an escape from homelessness and misery. I can have friends, family, and be fine with myself, but so long as my brain is essentially irreparable & broken and so long as I am miserable because of my illness, I will want suicide because I HATE feeling this never-ending pain every single day. It is a living hell. At least with cancer you can get pain killers to relieve the pain. With mental illness there is no pain killer, & the only reason that I don’t do suicide ASAP is because I dont WANT to feel pain, that is why euthanasia is so important. Euthanasia relieves the pain that WILL NEVER END. CHRONIC RECURRENT SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS THAT IS TREATMENT RESISTANT. You do not grow out of that, “life does not change”, if you cannot fix the source of the problem that causes the depression & when the source of the depression is not CBT based or situation based but is based on genetics & whatever causes that sort of unrelenting regardless-of-attitude/mindset-situation-depression, then life is literally a living hell & death becomes the only escape from a life of living hell. And things like family and friends and hobbies and everything else just are not enough to overcome mental torture & living a life of living hell. That is why people like you need to stop saying that depression ‘is a temporary problem” …. for many people it is, but for other people it’s really not. It’s unrelenting and never ending, every single day every single year. It’s not living, it’s hell. “life is always in flux” no, when you have unrelenting depression, life DOES NOT MATTER because the depression does not depend on life and life situations, it depends on brain chemistry, shit genetics, or whatever causes the endless feeling of physical & mental torture. This type of depression is not situation or life based at all, you could find every reason to be happy but physically YOU CANNOT FEEL HAPPINESS OR CONTENTNESS, YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT &MISERABLE. NO REASON NEEDED. With depression like this, your inner world CANNOT CHANGE. YOUR INNER WORLD IS A LIVING HELL THAT MAKES DEATH DESIRABLE BECAUSE DEATH BECOMES AN ESCAPE.

    the “possibility” of hope is foolish. when a prognosis for a group of people with an incurable mental illness is bad, like severe schizophrenia, hope is foolish. it is foolish to have hope if you have alzheimers. hope is not worth the anguish & mental torture that is this mental illness. a life of hell is not worth living for some absurd “possibility” that things will change for the better (even when the prognosis says that things will very well only get worse) “appreciate different things in life” = okay you really dont know what depression is.

    I think you need to realize that there are different types of suicide.
    There is the type of suicide that grows out of a situation, like bullying.
    Then there is the type of suicide that comes from chronic, never ending, relentless, treatment resistant, mental illness that makes every single aspect of life a living hell & makes things like family, friends, winning the lottery, success, everything, 100% not important because everything is overshadowed by the mental and physical anguish that is the mental illness. CBT changes nothing, attitude changes do not work – it’s genetic, it’s incurable, it’s hell. Please realize that for these people, suicide is not suicide, it is euthanasia – it is an escape from a living hell where, regardless of life situation & attitude or perspective changes, happiness cannot physically be felt & the mental illness is too strong just like incurable cancer; except mental illness is slow torture that wont kill you, you have to kill yourself for it to end. You are better off with terminal cancer that severe schizophrenia, bipolar, major depression. it should not only be “treatment resistant” mental illness because the medication for schizophrenia, bipolar, & some major depression is even worse than a life of living hell, it is pure torture that i would be willing to do anything to get out of. That’s how bad it is. I would suggest to anyone, if they have this condition &it is severe & chronic, to move to holland, fight for euthanasia, raise awareness about their condition (if they are mentally capable enough to do so..most likely not) & not go through the pain. the pain is not worth living longer for, it is not noble or chivalrous to go through the mental & physical anguish of mental illness, it is just horrific & there are only bad sides to it. nothing learned from mental illness is worth living for if your mental illness is pure torture & is pure, never-ending pain.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      How awful to live with a mental illness that is “pure torture and is pure, never-ending pain.” I am so sorry.

      It sounds like you have lost hope of things ever getting better for you. That sort of hopelessness is yet another form of torture and pain. I can only hope that life surprises you.

      I realize I can’t change your mind about what you said here. But…for the sake of others with mental illness, who perhaps even have just received a diagnosis of mental illness, I want to say a couple things for them:

      First, your comment compares mental illness to Alzheimer’s. However, Alzheimer’s-type dementia has a certain course of progressive deterioration. Although some people with mental illness do consistently get worse, this is by no means certain for everybody. It cannot be known prospectively whose mental health will deteriorate, whose will improve, and whose will go up and down.

      Second,although medications for depression and other mental illnesses do have side effects for some people, medication has improved the lives of millions of people. I am not preaching a pro-medication gospel here; I know that medication is not for everyone. I just want to point out, again for others with mental illness, that medication can be helpful in many cases.

      “Anonymous,” I hope you will consider calling the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline if you are in the U.S.; the number is 800.273.8255 (TALK). What do you have to lose?

    • Marlena says:

      Please don’t underestimate the person who is suffering from chronic illness.

  217. Chris K says:

    “There is always the possibility that they may find ways to cope.”

    Is that the goal, the triumph of one’s life, what one would be proud to have on their tombstone, “Yeah, I ‘coped.’ ?

    “Or they may come to appreciate different things in life.”

    OK, take away everything that has meaning for others, that gives their life meaning, things they sacrificed for and won, oh — well, just appreciate different things. Like, say, the U.S. and England lost WWII and now live under oppressive tyranny. Your advice to people who have become slaves to a killer state, find themselves in death camps is to them would be “appreciate different things in life.” That’s so interesting — why would you give such advice to people in a hopeless situation?

    “Whatever the case, they may discover things that make their life worth living.”

    And what if they never do? What if the chances of us are, oh, 0.00009%?

    This article offers no hope or advice to those who feel, and may be, really hopeless . . .

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      I’m sorry that this article did not help you. How painful to feel no hope.

      It doesn’t require living in a death camp as a slave to a killer state, to experience such profound and painful hopelessness. Even people living in affluent circumstances with all the freedoms in the world, with love from their family, partner, and friends, and with countless opportunities for joy can find themselves feeling hopeless. Usually the cause is depression, stress, trauma, addiction or some other problem, not life itself.

      Similarly, there are people who survived the impossible – death camps, POW camps, prolonged torture, years of captivity as a slave, the list goes on. And some of those people, amazingly, still found meaning, purpose, and joy at times.

      The author Graham Greene said, “It is one of the strange discoveries a man can make that life, however you lead it, contains moments of exhilaration; there are always comparisons which can be made with worse times: even in danger and misery the pendulum swings.”

      If your pendulum is not swinging, if this is the worst time without comparison, I hope you will consider talking to someone about it, whether a friend or professional. You can always call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1.800.273.8255 (TALK) if you are in the U.S., or check out the Resources page on this site.

      Good luck to you!

      If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that it’s not enough merely to cope, or to find purpose and meaning in a life where one is oppressed and persecuted, or to have hope that life will be worth living.

      It’s interesting that you used the analogy of “people who have become slaves to a killer state” and “find themselves in death camps.” This perfectly describes Viktor Frankl, a testament to the fact that people can find meaning and joy in life despite atrocious circumstances in life.

  218. Chris K says:

    “And yet, even with the certainty that they wanted to die, each told the reporter that the moment they jumped off the bridge, they regretted their decision.”

    Yes, they regretted it “in the moment,” but once they got more perspective, they did they go back to their original perceptions?

  219. Lucy says:

    @Dr. Freedenthal

    “…it is well known that there are people with mental illness whose suffering does not relent, even with extensive treatment. However, I don’t think anyone can know for certain just who those patients will be or are. Psychiatry’s powers of prediction are very, very weak. So then, who decides whose suffering can be eased and whose cannot? How long must someone try to achieve relief, and fail, before suicide should be sanctioned by society? A week? A month? A year? A decade? Who decides?”

    Isn’t it up to the individual to decide? We can only know for ourselves when enough is enough and when you have come to such a decision you don’t have to rush into the darkness but exit at the time of one’s choosing. What I do know for sure is that a therapist cannot tell me when I’ve had enough nor can my family or friends not even a judge. No one is asking society to sanction the act of suicide but to simply get out of the way of people who’ve already made a firm decision. There is a reason why the term “rational suicide” is used to differentiate from a spontaneous suicide that comes from a moment of acute pain or suffering. In Woody Allen’s film “September” there is a great scene where a depressed Mia Farrow is being talked into handing over pills she would take to end her life. As her friend talks her into handing over those pills she tells her that tomorrow she will leave for NY, find a new apartment, job, fall in love and that maybe it will work out and maybe it won’t. Mia’s character begins to cry and complains of how lonely she is and so her friend asks her if she really wants to die to which Mia’s character replies “No. That’s my problem I’ve always really wanted to live”. I think its a very honest scene because most people do in fact want to live but what isn’t true is that most people want to live under any circumstances. People want to live well and living well never means the same thing for everyone. In fact I find it remarkable at what many people can actually live without. Hope springs eternal for those who are hopeful but its a cause for cynicism for others who know FOR THEMSELVES what lies around the corner. Only the individual can decide how long they can try to achieve relief. If not the individual then who I would ask of you?

    I read an article recently where the wife of author David Foster Wallace was interviewed. She had the unhappy task of walking in to find her husband after he had hung himself. She was dismayed that so many of his fans thought it was the natural outcome for an artist, a man of genius and said she couldn’t celebrate his death and I agree with her. It wasn’t his genius that lead him to his final conclusion but the life he had lived looking for relief from a depression that wouldn’t let up. He had other suicide attempts where he had said he was glad he didn’t go through with it and attempted to find further remedy in electroshock treatment of which he underwent 12 sessions. He tried this drug which worked for a while and then had to switch to others that didn’t work and then back to the original (Nardil) which by then also stopped working until he decided to try and not take any drugs at all (all under the supervision of a psychiatrist). Having money to afford the best care Wallace checked himself into the McLean Hospital for care and where he underwent counseling. No one can say he didn’t try, no one can claim he didn’t battle for as long as he could, that he didn’t do everything in his power to preserve his well being and talent. It was only when he could no longer write, first on drugs and then off that he decided the fight was no longer worth his effort. He placed his manuscript on a table where his wife would find it as he wanted it to be published, unfinished as it was. I think Wallace wanted to live, he had fame, money, a great teaching job and a wonderful wife and family. He had battled mental illness since his late teens, early twenties and he just reached the end of his rope. Can we blame him? No. Was it a mistake? I don’t think we can judge whether it was or was not. He certainly had enough in his life, more than most I would say and yet it was not enough. Not for him. He had people he could call (a doctor, therapist, friends, his wife) and yet he chose the end of a rope. If you have ever read Wallace or heard him talk in interviews no one could call him out as irrational or eccentric and he didn’t appear buried by his disease but the disease was slowly taking its toll and robing him of the things he enjoyed, things he had worked hard to achieve.

    Its interesting to contrast his life with that of others who may have no great laurels to look back upon, no great family or spouse, no brilliant friends to call their own nor the ability to afford great mental health care. If anyone comes to the conclusion that their life is too empty to continue to live through then it is only they who know. It is only they who can decide. Suicide doesn’t need sanctioning, people do it everyday with remarkable success without asking society what it thinks one way or another. Its a personal affair and no one can say the when or the how. The argument behind “rational suicide” is that instead of people having to resort to a painful exit after a painful life, instead of having friends and family having to come home to the horror of a bloody scene or a noose around their loved ones neck, they can go in peace. I am not saying it would make it easier for the family to bear the loss but it certainly doesn’t force a horrific last memory. Wallace rushed to hang himself when his wife had gone out for a few hours because she had begun to watch over him, never leaving his side just in case he tried to kill himself. Wallace having assured her he was okay took the only opportunity he had and rushed to hang himself. I wonder if Wallace would have had to hurry his task if he knew he could end his life anytime he wanted with the sip of a drug. Maybe he would have waited, maybe it wouldn’t have made the slightest difference. You see the questions are always for the living, those left behind. The person who has made such an exit has already asked and answered all the questions for themselves. You cannot say whether it was a right or wrong decision for him you can only say whether you would or would not make the same decision for yourself.

    If you look at the countries where they have assisted suicide you will find that there are no more or less suicides outside the system than before they had the system in place. In other words there wasn’t a spike in teen suicides just because assisted suicide was legalized. In Holland 92% of adults favored the law but it made no difference in the number of suicides among young people. In the US where assisted suicide has much less support you don’t have lower rates of teen suicides because the act is frowned upon.

    I’m curious. If you had a someone who came to you and said they were planning to end their lives and they were simply looking for support on how best to take care of their final affairs, for example whether they should mention it to certain loved ones and if so how. You know they have made a firm decision, they were not looking to be talked out of it, they had their reasons and could talk about it but they weren’t looking for some sort of ‘relief’ because there wasn’t any to be had. What if you knew that the person was still functional and wasn’t battling a depression. What if they were say in their late forties or fifties and had lived a full life. They were not mourning a break up or the death of a partner but had come to the point in their life where it was too weary to continue living and they planned a peaceful exit. They just wanted to work out their last final details of what to give to whom, whom should they entrust with this property or that. How to make sure they are found the day after etc.

    What would you do? Tell them you don’t do that kind of thing? Intervene even though that is not what they want? In fact it wouldn’t make a difference? What would you do? They go to you because you specialize in suicides and they are thinking of how to best ease the act for those left behind. What would you do if you knew there isn’t anything you can say to change that persons mind? They are staunch. The person could be dismissed but they would still take the final act. As a therapist who would like to save as many lives as she can, as someone who feels compassion for others, what would your reaction be if you knew you couldn’t stop the act itself? The subject also knows you personally do not sanction suicide but they are not looking for anyone’s sanction.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      Those are excellent points, and beautifully conveyed. Your passion for the topic appears to match mine, even if our philosophies don’t align.

      You are, of course, correct that no one but the individual decides whether to die by suicide. When I ask “Who decides?” I am presuming a system where suicide is facilitated by society, whether through the distribution of painless means for suicide, a policy permitting therapists to sit idly by as a person describes plans to take his or her life hours later, etc. Even in the countries and states where such policies are in force, there is a system set up to, in theory, limit suicide to people who will soon die from terminal illness (e.g., Oregon and Washington in the U.S.) or who have an incurable, painful illness and have given careful consideration to their decision to die by suicide (e.g., Switzerland and the Netherlands).

      Really, when I say “Who decides?” I think I am asking, “How would I decide?” and “How would any mental health professional decide?” if such a system were in force. There are people for whom suicide prevention is clearly a necessity – the adolescent who thinks his current heartbreak will never be mended, the individual with psychosis tormented by auditory hallucinations telling him to behead himself, for examples. And to my mind, there are people on the other end of the spectrum for whom suicide prevention would be an injustice, for whom suicide should be facilitated if the therapist’s local jurisdiction and conscience allows for such a role: these are the people dying of an agonizing cancer, for example, who make the decision to hasten a death that is coming slowly, with torture as its long preamble.

      For me, as a mental health professional, how do I decide who lies between those end points? Except in cases where there is clear, objective, medical evidence of imminent death due to disease, how do I know what is incurable and what is not?

      So, really, that is my question – not who decides, but how does a person who sits face to face with a suicidal individual know that no help is warranted, especially when, having sat face to face with so many suicidal individuals, the mental health professional knows full well that what might appear hopeless can turn out to be a gateway to a richer and fuller existence.

      To answer your question about what I’d do with a client who sought my help transitioning from life to self-inflicted death, I have an ethical and legal obligation to try to preserve life. I am a licensed clinical social worker, and the National Association of Social Workers does have a policy statement encouraging social workers to provide support and assistance to terminally ill people who want to end their lives, with the caveat that such assistance and support must be requested by the client, in accord with one’s values, and legal in one’s jurisdiction,. Assisted suicide is not legal where I live (Colorado).

      If someone were to come to me seeking help in their decision-making process about whether to live or die, I would provide them help by exploring their desires to die and desires to live, excavating their ambivalence, helping them identify reasons for living and for dying, providing an empathic listening ear to the pain, hopelessness, boredom or whatever else drives their suicidal wishes, and so on. But I would, alas, have an obvious bias. I stand on the side of life, not in an absolutist “pro-life” way, as another commenter indicated, but rather as one who has stood witness to countless others who felt determined to die and were later grateful to be alive.

      Many of the ideas you raised here, including those about David Foster Wallace and the Woody Allen movie’s character, will keep me thinking about your comments for a while! One day I will write a post about some of the issues that you and others have raised around self-determination. For now, responding to the many insightful comments from people like you has kept me busy. :)

  220. Zara says:

    @Stacey Freedenthal. With regard to your comment published on Februari 3th.

    Regardless of the possible methodological problems with the study you cited there’s a fundamental principle that underpins science namely that correlation doesn’t imply causality. ‘Points to’ or ‘suggests’ are not terms to inspire much confidence in a conclusion and I do believe neuroscience still has a long way to go in terms of unraveling the actual workings of the brain and the links between brain activity, emotions, behaviour etcetera. Unless an actual neurophysiological or -anatomical cause can be shown for suicide or mental illness (making mental illnesses neurological diseases and suicide a behaviourial consequence of said neurological diseases just like delirium tremens is a consequence of severe alcohol intoxication) my argument stands since it’s absolutely unclear whether biological chances produce mental changes or vice versa. It’s pretty obvious our mood and thoughts are correlated with neurochemical changes in the brain but to deduce from this that suicides’ brains function abnormally is a non-sequitur (as far as I know there’s no established standard for the normal level of neurotransmitters and hypothesis’ about chemical imbalances causing mental problems remain exactly that: hypothesis’) and contitutes a questionable cause fallacy. The mind-body problem is still a philosophical issue and not a question that can be decided empirically. The only thing this study proves is that there’s a correlation between suicide and neurological changes in the brain but since I did not contest this it’s a moot point in the context of this debate.

    Even if we had perfect knowledge about this subject and it were possible to prevent suicide by physicially manipulating the brain and drug people into happiness/conformity/passivity (Huxly’s Brave New World) the question remains whether this would be desirable if it would make us slaves to circumstances and/or the will of others. In any case I think it’d be immoral for an elite to decide for others and we are still far from the situation where it’d actually be possible to provide chemically induced happiness without unacceptable side-effects.

    As to your second point: it’s well known certain mental patients cannot be cured (i.e a person lives in absolute dread and horror for any length of time and has enlisted the help of professionals but to no avail) and little if anything can be done to ease their suffering yet you are opposed to them seeking refuse in death? To me this seems inhumanely cruel and incomprehensible. Especially since I take it you’ve never experienced what it’s like to be schizophrenic, manic, morbidly depressed… In my view the criterium should not be terminal illness but incurable misery. In a way incurable mental affliction is far crueler than terminal physical illness since in the latter case nature at least kills directly (not ot mention far swifter) and those patients are usually given enough medication to make death a largely painfree, fairly comfortable experience while incurable mental patients are basically left to their own devices and the medical establishment isn’t even kind enough to let them live out their days in a blissful coma.

    You still haven’t responded to my point about this subject: if you know suicide will always occur to some degree why not be pragmatic and choose the lesser evil by granting them the right to a humane, painfree death? In that case you’d probably reach people who would otherwise never even consider engaging with professionals (a lot of people who kill themselves never saw a psychiatrist or therapist) and at least inform them properly about the possible alternatives.

    I’ve never understood this absolutist pro-life stance. In my opinion life should not be about how long one lives (quantity) but how well (quality) and if the latter is in serious decline it makes sense to look for the exit. My position in the matter is neatly summed up by the stoic Seneca the younger:

    “You may consider that the same thing happens to us: life has carried some men with the greatest rapidity to the harbour, the harbour they were bound to reach even if they tarried on the way, while others it has fretted and harassed. To such a life, as you are aware, one should not always cling. For mere living is not a good, but living well. Accordingly, the wise man will live as long as he ought, not as long as he can. He will mark in what place, with whom, and how he is to conduct his existence, and what he is about to do. He always reflects concerning the quality, and not the quantity, of his life. As soon as there are many events in his life that give him trouble and disturb his peace of mind, he sets himself free. And this privilege is his, not only when the crisis is upon him, but as soon as Fortune seems to be playing him false; then he looks about carefully and sees whether he ought, or ought not, to end his life on that account. He holds that it makes no difference to him whether his taking-off be natural or self-inflicted, whether it comes later or earlier. He does not regard it with fear, as if it were a great loss; for no man can lose very much when but a driblet remains. It is not a question of dying earlier or later, but of dying well or ill. And dying well means escape from the danger of living ill.

    That is why I regard the words of the well-known Rhodian as most unmanly. This person was thrown into a cage by his tyrant, and fed there like some wild animal. And when a certain man advised him to end his life by fasting, he replied: “A man may hope for anything while he has life.” This may be true; but life is not to be purchased at any price. No matter how great or how well-assured certain rewards may be I shall not strive to attain them at the price of a shameful confession of weakness. Shall I reflect that Fortune has all power over one who lives, rather than reflect that she has no power over one who knows how to die?” (Moral letters, 70)

    This man’s spirit soared high and his heroic death (as recounted by Tacitus) proved without a doubt his courage and moral mettle was equal to his intellect and he lived what he taught. In life one should always seek out examples of superior moral and intellectual qualities and try to emulate them as much as possible on the road to overcoming oneself (man is something to be overcome, dixit Nietzsche) and striving for excellence. If I were to enlist the services of a psychiatrist or therapist I’d look for someone who is wise and has actual personal experience in dealing with hardship and heartache (how is it possible to effectively councel someone in a situation you only know in theory?), for some reason I doubt many individuals in that field would qualify. It’s clear an academic degree isn’t necessarily proof of competence or intellectual aptness let alone moral fortitude and wisdom.

    Science and wisdom are totally different things and in my opinion psychiatry has as little to do with the latter as the former. It’s an ideology and an authoritarian one at that (motivated by the Nietzschean Will-to-Power and with the object of providing the new opium for the masses, for a price of course we do live in a capitalist society after all – note: this statement doesn’t imply in any way that individual psychiatrists or therapists are necessarily evil or self-serving; even though the catholic church has always been a force of oppression and thought control there have been many individual clergymen and nuns who were good people and acted for the benefit of others) and that’s why I’m highly sceptical about it without condemning it all together as I believe very much in people’s freedom to make their own choices (what is life worth without freedom?). Even or especially if I deem them absurd, in this regard you and I are in complete opposition.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      As usual, you raise compelling and challenging points. Let me address the key ones individually:

      “Correlation doesn’t imply causality.” That is absolutely correct. Two things can be strongly correlated even in the absence of a causal relationship. However, the presence of a correlational relationship does not in itself mean that there is not a causal relationship. In fact, there can be no causal relationship in the absence of correlation. Do brain abnormalities cause suicide? Many more years of research will try to answer that question. In the meantime, neither you nor I can know the true nature of the relationship. We can know only that a causal relationship hasn’t been ruled out, which would have occurred if there were no correlation.

      “It’s well known certain mental patients cannot be cured…and little if anything can be done to ease their suffering.” In the main, yes, it is well known that there are people with mental illness whose suffering does not relent, even with extensive treatment. However, I don’t think anyone can know for certain just who those patients will be or are. Psychiatry’s powers of prediction are very, very weak. So then, who decides whose suffering can be eased and whose cannot? How long must someone try to achieve relief, and fail, before suicide should be sanctioned by society? A week? A month? A year? A decade? Who decides?

      “In my view the criterion should not be terminal illness but incurable misery.” Again, who decides whose misery is incurable? Professionals? The suffering individual? There are legions of people who were certain that their misery (or that of someone they knew) was incurable, only to be proven gloriously wrong.

      “If I were to enlist the services of a psychiatrist or therapist I’d look for someone who is wise and has actual personal experience in dealing with hardship and heartache…, for some reason I doubt many individuals in that field would qualify.” You might be surprised by what you find if you read up on “the wounded healer.” There is evidence that many mental health professionals entered the field precisely because of their experiences, whether personally or in their family, with mental illness, addiction, and other hardship. Such experiences can deepen people’s empathy, capacity for understanding, and desire to help others. At the same time, I don’t believe that someone needs to have suffered terribly to understand another person’s terrible suffering, just as suffering terribly does not automatically gift one with understanding of another person’s terrible suffering. Suffering is inherently unique; even if a therapist has endured similar circumstances as a client, the emotional experiences will still diverge.

      Zara, sometimes I am not entirely certain what we are debating. Is it that you think people should not discourage others from suicide? Or that society should make it easier for people to die by suicide? Or that nobody should ever be stopped from suicide? Or that nobody should ever be committed involuntarily to a psychiatric hospital solely because of suicide risk? All of the above? More generally, are you opposed to suicide prevention at all? If not, in what circumstances do you support efforts to prevent a person from killing himself or herself?

  221. Lucy says:

    @Stacey Freedenthal

    There is a documentary called “Death by Prescription” you can find on Vimeo or perhaps on youtube.

    It won’t change your mind, I wouldn’t want to change your mind because its not the role you play in life but it may give you some insight into rational suicide for those who are making that choice and perhaps you can come to the point of understanding the perspective of those who have come to it as a conclusion even if you cannot agree or sanction. Perhaps it can open your eyes a little so you don’t think everyone who makes this choice is simply in need of therapy and meds because of a short circuited brain which I believe to be a false premise in which to categorize all suicides.

  222. Lucy says:

    @Stacey Freedenthal

    Please do not think I was suggesting you should “abet” in someone else’s choice to die. I understand well you have personal reasons based on your own morality that inhibits aiding another in such a choice and that should always be respected, just like its respected that all doctors would not be able provide assisted suicide if it were legal because of their own personal opposition. I guess its a little like abortion, once legal we didn’t find hoards of women choosing to abort nor is every doctor willing to be an abortionist. I do think its awesome that you take the time to respond to comments, it shows you really care about the topic. I do believe that the topic is becoming less taboo and one day assisted suicide will probably become a legal right for the terminal even if less likely for others though that too may change in time.I appreciate you correcting the stats I posted but I do wonder about all these stats since I read in a 2004 study published in Archives of General Psychiatry that showed although antidepressants alleviated depression in youth at risk of suicide the desire for suicide was not nor increased decreased by medication treatment. It goes back to the point of whether the desire to die is always an outcome of depression. http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1151018

    You wrote “there are so many medications, psychotherapies, and alternative therapies for people who have suicidal urges that it is impossible to know, without trying them all separately and in all possible combinations, that a person’s condition is untreatable.” And that’s precisely my point. Treatment is like undergoing an experimental crap shoot of trying different this and different that as life passes you by. You can spend decades trying one thing or another only to wake up one day and find that in some cases not only did treatment make things worse through enforced incarcerations, talk therapy that went nowhere, side affects from wrong medication but that ones life has now marked more by band aids that wouldn’t stick than the actual living of life. So what is there to do for the person who’s spent the better part of their life in treatment only to discover that they are not any better than when they started? Its enough to encourage a young person to cling to life, to fight for life, to try every option but there does come some point in one’s life, maybe when they are in their late forties or 50’s when treatment can become tedious, pointless and predictable. When you reach a certain age the probability of change is not very likely. One’s life can take on a pattern and the pattern once set isn’t likely to change. You say that suicide is a sign of abnormality in the brain (psychiatry once thought the same thing of homosexuality) but we never say for example that the Japanese Kamikaze pilots who took their planes on a one way trip were depressed nor not of “sound mind”. They were young and motivated by obligation, loyalty to family and country. They volunteered for a suicide mission at a time of war and they were rational. For the Japanese duty and suicide have a long cultural heritage for which its difficult for us in the West to understand even if there was a relaxed attitude towards suicide during our pagan, Roman and Greek world before Christianity. Much of how we think about life and death are nothing more than cultural constructs.

    “Can we know that someone’s perception that their life will never change or even get better is correct? Based on probabilities, I would argue no, but I can’t know. Neither can you. All we can know is that someone who dies by suicide is acting on belief, not fact, because, except in certain circumstances such as end-stage terminal illness, the future is unknowable.”

    But one can know. One can know for themselves, they just can’t know for anyone else and that’s precisely why the decision is so personal. I can know the facts for myself. You can only imagine for another and what you imagine is based on your belief not the reality of someone else’s life. In this fashion all life is a matter of perception and belief which I am not opposing, what I oppose is the idea that someone else’s belief should have authority over my own. This idea that life is like a Hollywood film where the unexpected always happens is very very American. Its the idea that things always progress for the better more likely than not. I personally have found that to be wishful thinking. Change in life doesn’t just happen, the success of ones life is based on what they are able to do not just on what happens whether we call it luck or serendipity. If one cannot effectively bring about change in terms of quality of life, an added meaning to ones life then its not going to just magically happen. It also cannot be induced with meds nor talked into ones life from outside and no one has the ability to give it to you. Psychotherapy and pharmacology has its limits, for it were successful most of the time then depression wouldn’t be such a national health issue. At this point in my life I look at psychotherapy a little like joining a new diet. The promises are great, you may even lose 10 pounds but eventually the struggle ensues again and you’re off sifting through new diets and lifestyle fixes. Sometimes with hard work and diligence there is success, sometimes its just another fail.

    Let’s face it. Finding a good therapist is not like finding a good GP. You can spend a very long time and a great deal of money looking for someone where the treatment and the connection is just right. Just like you can spend a ridiculous amount of time popping one pill and yet another looking for a panacea and its exactly this that negates psychiatry as an exact science.

    Anyway, I don’t want to take up your time. I will just end by saying that suicide for those who are not mentally ill nor seeking ‘help’ is a private affair. The rational suicide, like that of Michele Causse, is something not decided in a moment of panic, fear or emotional distress but something deliberated upon over time. One looks at their options and the probability of change. They don’t ask others for an opinion, they feel no reason to run out and get meds nor seek therapy because they are not seeking to have their mind changed. They know themselves and they know their reasons, its all been tallied. The rational suicide doesn’t jump off buildings, throw themselves of bridges nor do they shoot or hang, they research and look for as painless a death as possible, they try and ensure they do not leave a mess for others and that their affairs are in order. They are usually older and come to the decision after having lived a fairly full life whether happy or sad and its perhaps precisely because these people do not show up at your office and you very seldom have a chance to talk to them that you don’t understand the motivations and steps behind a ‘rational suicide’. I do wish you success in your efforts to help others who are in pain and want to live and I hope you always have the ability to aid others navigate themselves into the life they hope to experience.

    • Marlena says:

      What is the role of a therapist? Just someone talking to you. If you are million dollars in debt or facing chronic illness. No matter how good the therapist is of no use. Antidepressants would kill you first.

  223. Zara says:

    @ Stacey Freedenthal. For some reason it’s impossible to directly reply to your comment.

    You’re welcome, I’m always up for discussions about ethical subjects and relish the chance to debate in a rational and courteous manner. For now I’ll only answer to the first part of your reply: this doesn’t mean I agree with you on the other points but at this moment that’s all I have time for.

    Your first point isn’t minor at all: in my view it is of critical importance since your position basically rests on the assumption that one must be mentally ill to even consider suicide let alone actually go through with it, you even theorize researchers overlook signs and imply the 90% figure is still too low. In my view this is ideology, not fact and the statistic you mentioned is hardly credible. Not in the least because there are other statistics that claim other figures which differ too much to be trivial.

    The term ‘psychological autopsy’ is a misnomer as it implies objectivity and solid scientific grounding where there is none: actual, medical autopsies (based on the natural and biological sciences like anatomy, pathology, biochemistry, toxicology…) yield empirical, verifiable results that can be duplicated or disproven by any halfway skilled pathologist, psychological autopsies on the other hand are based on witness-reports in circumstances that can never be duplicated (at a later date the emotions may have faded, witnesses have talked to others, the personality and appearance of the researcher may play a role…) nor disproven (at least not by the same means). People are basically asked to guess as to what they think caused the suicide while public morality is very adament about the supposed causal relationship between mental illness and suicide (thereby avoiding sticky ethical questions about society’s responsibility towards its members by laying the blame squarely with the individual’s psychological make-up or supposed biological factors for which there is very little evidence). Because of this they will likely provide answers that are socially acceptable much like the answers that are given on sexuology questionairs about cheating, fetishes, homosexuality etcetera. If loved-ones and friends feel guilty about someone’s suicide (regardless if this is justified or not) will they not jump at the chance of easing this guilt by accepting the suggestion provided by the researcher (the way questions are framed largely determine the answers) that it was an illness not a conscious decision and therefore a natural occurence that lead to the suicide?

    Human-beings need to be able to make sense of their world and therefore will always come up with explanations that sound coherent and believable, even under circumstances of very inadequate knowledge and/or high uncertainty, hence the idiocy of the notion popular in philosophy of man as the rational animal (the fact that we’re destroying our own habitat and climate for short-term profit is a pretty big hint this isn’t true at all) and the widespread popularity of religion.

    It’s well known eyewitness-reports are notoriously unreliable (it’s often the case that 5 people who observed a crime taking place will arrive at wildly differing, even completely contradictory statements) and those questions are about observable behaviour (what did suspect A wear, do, say…) and not such a nebelous subject as state of mind which is highly subjective as thoughts and feelings aren’t externally observable and can only be guessed at by analogy to our own inner world. We can never know with any degree of certainty how someone is feeling even if we know them well (even if they tell us how do we know that the words ‘happiness’ or ‘sadness’ have the same meaning to the both of us?) yet apparantly diagnosis of mental illness can be established in absentia by means of opinions provided by highly distressed, emotional witnesses who are likely to have been exposed to the psychiatric world-view (anything to do with mental illness and suicide is highly popular these days and the framing by the media is nearly always one-sided: regurgitating the same dubious facts & figures over and over again without any criticism whatsover – almost as if people need to be taught how to think on this subject or at least do what is expected of them without question)… This is doubly subjective: first on the part of the witness(es), secondly on the part of the researcher who is of course trained to look at these things through the lens of psychopathology, hence my original statement that this reeks of confirmation bias and sadly there’s no way to prove who’s right and who isn’t.

    In Dutch there is a saying that translates more or less to ‘when you’re looking for a stick to beat a dog you’ll always find one’ (note: we don’t actually tolerate beating dogs and there are laws against animal abuse): if you have strong convictions about a certain subject you’ll tend to ignore evidence that contradicts those opinions while focussing on those elements that seem to support your view. Human-beings are masters of self-deception and with regard to emotionally charged moral topics such as suicide it is quite difficult to think with a cool head and without bias, even if one doesn’t have a direct, personal stake in the matter (emotionally or economically).

    If someone’s throat has been cut or the subject died from disease X and the post-mortem examination of the body provides clear evidence to support this conclusion it isn’t a matter of opinion but of fact. Psychological autopsies are based on little more than opinion (highly influenced by social and cultural values and the expectations of the researchers) and are basically systematic guesswork, in my view they’re about as useful and sound as dream analysis or tarrot card reading. Statistics are only as reliable as the methods used to acquire them and in this case they’re next to useless (except in providing socially acceptable/beneficial pseudo-answers) but of course many people are very gullible and/or uneducated therefore they usually just accept numbers and statistics at face-value without inquiring how they were derived.

    Post-mortem labelling of suicides for social, political and economic purposes (society’s not to blame, for heaven’s sake we need more funding for psychiatry/research and of course the rates of consumption of psychiatric drugs worldwide keep rising year after year – strangly this seems to have little impact on the suicide rates) on highly spurious ground and in the guise of science doesn’t sit well with me and I refuse to accept it as a legitimate argument in this discussion.

    I found an interesting article online about the severe limitations and controversial nature of this psychological technique: http://articles.philly.com/1993-12-21/news/25942453_1_suicidal-loner-suicide-attempt-iowa-explosion. Equally interesting is the finding by the investigators:

    “Psychological autopsies designed to determine suicidal tendencies and behavior are of moderate value and utility,” said a summary of the Iowa panel’s findings, published in the January issue of American Psychologist magazine. “Psychological autopsy is relatively undeveloped, with little known about its reliability or validity.”

    If psychologists themselves reach this conclusion I rest my case. The whole article is rife with similar statements, here’s one more:

    “Even under the best conditions, a psychological autopsy is not all that scientific,” said Ronald W. Maris, a University of South Carolina psychologist who has written or edited 11 clinical books on suicide. “It’s subjective. It’s an after-the-fact, third-party procedure. It can be a highly unreliable technique.”

    In other words the statistic you mentioned is fairly meaningless and doesn’t constitute reliable empirical evidence at all.

    If this is the result of a quick, casual internet search without access to specialized libraries and databases imagine what can be found during a trip to the university library with a few hours to spare.

  224. Lucy says:

    @Dr. Stacey Freedenthal

    You say society will always be helped by trying to minimize death, true but to what degree. The fact is that suicide is seen as ALWAYS something to be prevented even to the point of taking away someone’s freedom.
    This simply comes down to personal and cultural beliefs. It is not possible to say whether a person is correct in their assumption that their life is worth living or not because its too personal. There are some people who’s lives I would personally find so unbearable I wouldn’t find it worth living and yet they continue without ever seriously wanting to die.

    How do you weigh the difference between mental and physical suffering? How? You personally believe suicide should be permissible only in the case of terminal disease but not in mental illness because its only a “symptom” of the disease. Isn’t the choice to die at ones own hands due to terminal illness also only a symptom of the suffering from an unwanted disease? Both choices are symptoms as that same person would have been happy to go on living if it were not for the physical or mental pain, suffering, diminished quality of life or the lack of bearable choices. A man or a woman with Locked in Syndrome isn’t terminal but will face a lifetime of incalculable suffering. And yes I have read the book “The Diving Bell and the Butterfly” but for every man who will find satisfaction in his ability to author a book one wink at a time there’s another in unremitting hell. I think its insulting to diminish mental suffering when comparing it to physical suffering as you did when you wrote that in some countries “people are helped to die on the basis only of a mental illness”. Only? You are assuming you can gauge suffering. You’re also assuming you know better than the person themselves what they should and shouldn’t have to live with.

    There is an opinion I personally take issue with and that’s the assumption that mental suffering or the inability to connect to life is somehow always curable. The law allowing the mentally ill to choose death in say Holland doesn’t apply to those who’ve never had treatment, it applies to those who’ve sometimes had decades of treatment to no avail. If you are honest you will admit that the various methods of therapy and pharmaceutical drugs do not work for everyone and do not work for everyone all the time. There is no pill or set of words to cure one from life if in fact ones life is the problem. Sure there are people who wanted to die and then were happy to be alive but you are not being honest when you fail to add that there are also those who are not happy to have failed.

    Some real world facts some of which I know from personal experience:

    Antidepressants work for 35 to 45% of the depressed population, while more recent figures suggest as low as 30%.

    Antidepressants (particularly SSRIs) work only as well (or less) than placebos.

    Standard antipressants, SSRIs such as Prozac, Paxil (Aropax) and Zoloft, have recently been revealed to have serious risks, and are linked to suicide, violence, psychosis, abnormal bleeding and brain tumors.

    Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has an 80% relapse rate in the long term.

    (All stats obtained from

    This does not infer that someone who’s suffering from depression or mental illness shouldn’t seek help, nor am I implying that available treatments are a waste of time, they work for many people depending on their trouble. What I am pointing out is that if someone has spent an inordinate amount of time in and out of treatment to no avail, if their quality of life is no longer bearable then they are no different than the person suffering from a terminal physical illness; one could even argue that they are worse off since its possible that the person suffering a terminal illness had a very good and fulfilling life. Therapists must stop pretending that they have a panacea for empty lives and that the resources available will work for everyone.

    The same site goes on to state the following,

    “Good relationships: studies show that relationships with partners, carers, teachers, co-workers and a supportive social network results in physical and emotional healing, happiness and life satisfaction, and prevents isolation and loneliness, major factors in depressive illness.”

    Don’t you find that funny? I do because who wouldn’t want those things in their life, its a list that marks a life well lived! So what if you cannot accomplish any from that Maslow list of goals? What would it say about the quality of life? Fact is there are some people who cannot fill that list and some of those same people may decide upon a suicide based on rational thinking. What I hear you saying is that its not possible for someone to make a decision in favor of rational suicide, a decision based on taking a realistic look at the whole of their life and its simply not true. Frankly I don’t think you state that opinion because its what you know for sure, I think you hold that opinion because its a bias based on your personal beliefs (personal beliefs supported by cultural bias) but not formed by fact.

    Finally you asked this question “When a person who wants to die has an illness for which the desire to die is a symptom, then how do we say that that person is of sound mind to make such a decision?”

    How do you determine whether the person with a physical illness is of sound mind? Is it based on their having no mental health history? If someone has a mental health history, does that mean they are never of sound mind or only lacking in that capacity when it comes to life and death decisions? It seems to me that the lacking in “sound mind” argument only comes up in the case of suicide and its a bias not based on any scientific method. If someone with no documented mental illness decided to take their own lives for whatever reason it would be considered a decision not made of sound mind and the person would be labeled “depressed” even if that were not the case. Its such a pervasive judgement that it even keeps those who might benefit from treatment from seeking it; I’m thinking of say the elderly who are afraid of being a burden or are just tired of the boredom of a dwindling life. Those of course who have decided upon a rational suicide wouldn’t seek help at all because there would be no reason to discuss their decision.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      Thank you for your insightful comments. You make so many excellent points and raise so many important questions that I am unsure I can do justice to all of them. I will try.

      “If you are honest you will admit that the various methods of therapy and pharmaceutical drugs do not work for everyone and do not work for everyone all the time.” You are absolutely correct. There is no treatment that is effective for everybody. Still, there are so many medications, psychotherapies, and alternative therapies for people who have suicidal urges that it is impossible to know, without trying them all separately and in all possible combinations, that a person’s condition is untreatable.

      About the effectiveness of antidepressants: Your figure of an effectiveness rate of 30-45% is not consistently supported in the scholarly literature. Instead, an international report found a much wider range of effectiveness: 32 – 70%. It is true that antidepressants don’t work for everybody, especially people with minor to moderate depression. But a review in the prestigious journal JAMA indicates that for people with severe depression, the results can be dramatic. People with severe depression are, of course, at much higher risk for suicide than those with other types of depression.

      About relapse to depression after cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT): You state that 80% of people who complete CBT have a relapse. This simply is not true. Here’s a link to a rigorous study that found a 30% relapse rate, compared to a 47% relapse rate for people who took antidepressants only and a 72% relapse rate for people who stopped taking antidepressants.

      About physical vs. mental pain: In saying that suicide should be permitted for people with terminal illness but not mental illness, I by no means meant to “diminish mental suffering.” To the contrary, mental suffering is excruciating, pernicious, and formidable. I once saw an interview by Stephen Fry with a man who jumped in front of a bus in a suicide attempt. Various bones were crushed, and he endured an unimaginable number of painful surgeries. And this man said none of that physical pain even compared to the mental pain that led to his suicide attempt. So please don’t misunderstand me. I am humbled by the forces of mental pain; they are so overpowering that they can lead to death.

      My stance on suicide for terminal illness is not one about physical vs. mental pain. Rather, it’s about the imminent inevitability of deterioration and death in terminal illness. There is no hope for recovery when somebody with a terminal illness has only weeks to months left to live. With emotional pain, there is no certainty at all that a person will deteriorate and die. To the contrary, many people who were absolutely convinced of their hopelessness later discovered, to their great surprise and sometimes joy, that they were wrong. (Note that if I thought physical pain justified suicide, then I would not limit my philosophical stance on permissible suicide to people with terminal illness.)

      On “rational” suicide: There is no real right or wrong to this debate; everything is based on belief, not fact, because we cannot know what the facts are. Can we know that someone’s perception that their life will never change or even get better is correct? Based on probabilities, I would argue no, but I can’t know. Neither can you. All we can know is that someone who dies by suicide is acting on belief, not fact, because, except in certain circumstances such as end-stage terminal illness, the future is unknowable. (And some people would even argue that we cannot know what gifts life will bestow on us in those final days of life.)

      About “sound mind” and suicide: Inherently, I believe that suicide is based on something having gone wrong in the brain, because as living organisms we are wired to survive. With suicide, those wires somehow became short-circuited.

      Summing up: Look, I am a realist. I know that some people will die by suicide despite suicide prevention workers’ best efforts. Statistics indicate that in recent years, roughly 40,000 people died by suicide each year in the U.S., and roughly 1 million worldwide.

      I feel nothing but compassion and sadness for people whose lives are so painful that they seek death.

      I can even understand why people make the decision to die.

      But that does not mean I should sit idly by and say nothing, or even give the message, as some commenters on this site implicitly do, that when people experience excruciating pain, when they feel hopeless, when they are certain that their life will never get better, that suicide is the solution.

      I can understand the desire to die, I can explore it, I can empathize with it. But I cannot abet it.

    • Zara says:

      @Stacey Freedenthal,

      May I kindly ask you not to ascribe to me something I never said, in other words to refrain from putting words into my mouth even under the guise of wrongly attributed implication. When I defend freedom and state this should include the right to self-ownership and hence suicide it does not imply that people should do anything: what I defend is people’s autonomy and moral right to undertake certain actions (freedom of choice, protection against public intervention), I’m certainly not so arrogant as to pretend to know what is best for them in specific circumstances. I’m not of the opinion that suicide is a wise decision under all or even the majority of circumstances and by all means try anything that is reasonable to alleviate suffering before undertaking such a drastic measure but for some people there is little to be done sadly and if they want to exit life then I completely understand and I believe they should be helped: either by medical personnel or at least by giving them access to painfree means. This is the humane, moral and decent thing to do and it respects their autonomy and human dignity instead of the standard response of involuntary commitment, drugging and disgusting paternalism (treating grown men and women as children who bear no responsibility for themselves and basically have no rights whatsoever) which I abhor and soundly condemn.

      I don’t think you’re a realist: based on what you’ve written you’re clearly an optimist whom I believe means well but has no actual personal experience with suffering especially the mental variety. If you’re against suicide for mental ill people (even the incurable ones) you are in fact belitteling that kind of suffering (it’s not as serious as physical illness therefore no right to suicide), your statements to the contrary notwithstanding. You seem to have an immense faith in your own discipline that in my view is exaggerated (it is known the efficacity of antidepressants depends largely on the placebo-effect which means it’s not the drug that’s effective but the patient’s mind and belief, at present very little is known about how depression manifests itself in the brain and thus how it could be treated effectively) and psychotherapy doesn’t work for everyone. Like I said in an earlier comment: sometimes circumstances are so rotten that talking will do little (if you’re poor, ill, have no friends etcetera your suffering is not based on a wrong idea about reality but on actual, terrible, objective circumstances) and people just can’t be helped. It would be realistic to recognise this and actually care for those poor souls instead of forcing them to die alone and by horrible means with a good chance of disfigurement or handicaps if it fails. In my view this is what’s highly immoral, not holding the view that suicide is well within the individual’s rights and just like no-one has a bloody right to steal your property or assault you the state shouldn’t have the right to lock you up like an animal for something that isn’t illegal and by itself does not pose a risk to anyone else. Goverments will always claim they have the people’s best interests at heart, even while they subvert basic liberties and bury freedom under a mountain of well-meaning laws and regulations.

      One last thing: you cannot possibly know suicide is the consequence of the brain gone haywire. This isn’t based on any scientific study but on your own personal belief which amounts to little more than wishful thinking. Surely it’s obvious man consists of more than merely nature (biology) and has the mental capacity to foresee the future to some degree aswell as remember the past and therefore can make reasonend judgments on his current position. It is natural to avoid pain and seek pleasure: in that respect we’re no different from the animals and if avoiding the first and attaining the second no longer is possible (regardless of the specific reason) what would be so irrational about seeking a neutral state which offers neither pain nor pleasure? Just like it’s sometimes necessary to amputate a leg or an arm in order to save the whole body sometimes death is the only and ultimate cure for a miserable, wretched life that is a burden to the person living it and certainly not a boon or a joy. You seem to think others can make that judgement for that individual, I strongly disagree.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:


      As usual, I appreciate the depth, rigor, and passion with which you challenge my thinking. I think we are nearing the point of saturation in our ongoing debate: For me to respond to many of your points, I’d have to repeat what I’ve already said in comments that you have already read and responded to. (For example, I explained that my philosophical stance on suicide prevention does not differentiate between mental and physical pain; rather, I differentiate between unequivocally terminal illness and other illness, physical or mental.)

      There is one point that I have not responded to already. In response to my statement that something must go awry in the brain for suicidal thoughts to overcome humans’ hard-wired survival instinct, you said my statement “isn’t based on any scientific study” and “amounts to little more than wishful thinking.” In fact, various studies have found brain and/or neurochemical abnormalities in autopsies of people who died by suicide. And this research is only in its infancy.

      Here is one such study. No, it’s not a perfect study. Yes, it has limitations (such as its small size). But I give it as an example of research out there that does point to some type of malfunction in the brain in people who die by suicide: Neuron density and serotonin receptor binding in prefrontal cortex in suicide
      Mark D. Underwood, Suham A. Kassir, Mihran J. Bakalian, Hanga Galfalvy, J. John Mann, Victoria Arango.

    • Joe says:

      The problem is that such “abnormalities” do nothing to substantiate your assertion of something having gone awry. I doubt that anyone would seriously dispute that the brain of someone in chronic agony would have clear differences to one of someone who enjoys constant bliss. What is under dispute is the leap you make from “there are observable differences in the brains of suicidal people” to “therefore this specific behavior is irrational”. How do you know that these differences only correlate specifically to suicidal thought? Can you explain specifically what brain functions are governed by these regions and how? What about the environmental factors that might engender it such as unending loneliness? The literature is rife with differences between socially connected and unconnected people both cognitively and physically. What about the dissociation commonly experienced once one has committed? Suicidal individuals will often appear as calm and at ease prior due to the experience of detachment from pain. It’s not enough to draw a conclusion and declare the case closed – you need to show your work.

      In any case, the invocation of biological hard-wiring to make your case is a logical fallacy known as appeal to nature. This is the same devious reasoning that led to homosexuality becoming a mental illness. After all, from the standpoint that procreation is a basic biological imperative, same-sex attraction can’t be anything but a dysfunction. Of course, this was later corrected once more perspective was introduced as, while technically true, there is no shortage of people who deviate from “biology” and choose infertile partners or use contraception. Us humans defy nature all the time hence any appeal to it will ultimately be both selective and tendentious. There’s nothing inherently dysfunctional about our conscious minds being at odds with our reptilian brains because we are not slaves to instinct; your argument merely grants undue weight to the latter in order to dispute the legitimacy of the former.

  225. Zara says:

    Surely you must know putting emotionally charged words between brackets in order to cast doubt on them is a sure sign of bias and a logical fallacy? Although it’s understandable given your profession and training this article is entirely one sided since you fail to treat it as what it is: a moral issue about which there is much philosophical debate. It’s most certainly not a question science can solve once and for all.

    I don’t have much time to delve too deeply but the gist of my position is that individual freedom should be the supreme value for decent, democratic societies under the rule of law. The basis of freedom is self-ownership and this means at the very least non-interference with suicide (with the possible exception for minors since they aren’t legally autonomous) and hopefully, in the interest of preventing unnecessary suffering and horrifying consequences of a failed attempt, assistence in achieving a humane and peaceful death.

    In this The Netherlands and Belgium are true ethical trendsetters (although I detest the fact that physicians still have way too much say in the matter and it’s clear psychiatrists and therapists have a stake in refusing to sign off on such requests and drag on treatment for as long as possible, even if it’s clear it’s not working) and I for one am proud to be a citizen of the latter. At last we finally liberated ourselves from the masochistic, irrational and pain worshipping slave morality that is christianity (same goes for any other organised religion or at least those that posit things that cannot possible be proven and seek to control people’s behaviour and thoughts).

    This is the true root of the idiotic notion that life is supposedly holy (nature says otherwise) and there is value even in living like a vegetable so it should be prolonged for as long as possible even at the cost of great harm to the suffering individual. The funny thing is that the bible contains no prohibition on suicide and it wasn’t even considered a sin untill large numbers of worshippers offed themselves in order to get to heaven quicker (a byproduct of getting people hooked on fantastic delusions of a wonderful life beyond the grave) which was quite unfortunate since it interfered with the political goals of the early christian church. There are good reasons to suggest that psychopathology and psychiatry are much more like an ethical system or religion than a science or scientifically informed practice but unfortunately I find myself lacking in time so feel free to disregard this statement since it is atm unsubstantiated.

    It is my opinion that once suffering people know they have a right to a humane death the majority of them will not be so foolish as to resort to the brutal, painful and very dangerous methods that are commonly used now. Just knowing you can check out if you really want to (obviously this doesn’t mean handing out lethal drugs like candy to someone who’s deeply distressed, delusional, drunk or high) will likely provide a huge sense of relief and new courage to face life once again and of course it would be a splendid idea to provide these people with the assistance they need and choose. This is confirmed by the Dignitas Foundation in Switserland: a lot of people who go there and even have the cup with barbiturates in their hands change their minds, go home and lead full, happy lives. They had the chance of a peaceful death, no-one was forcing them to stay alive (this would be highly immoral in my view yet it is standard practice even in so called civilized countries) yet they choose exactly that. They were free to live or die and they took great solace in that knowledge, enough to regain strength and resolve and carrying on. To me this truly is marvelous.

    Legalising suicide might very well have a positive effect on the number of suicides (I am most definitely not pro suicide and I’d rather live in a world where no-one suffers so badly all they have left is an early death but alas this is not the case so I’d rather be pragmatic about it instead of losing myself in pointless ideological fantasies that do more harm than good) and at least we wouldn’t see anymore horrible disfigurement or tragic handicaps as the result of failed attempts (in my opinion keeping someone alive who blew away half his face with a shotgun or is reduced to a salivating plant because of a failed hanging is the height of immorality and a violation of the Hippocratic Oath: primum non nocere).

    If suicide is legal and humane, painfree means are available to people who’ve thought things through and aren’t blatantly out of their mind (this has nothing to do with the concept of mental illness but more aking to the much broader legal notion whether or not someone has control over their actions) then those who still resort to other means are either complete fools or tragic genetic abnormalities.

    Surely you can’t possible consider suicide by someone with an incurable illness or chronic mental condition to be irrational? If so I’d like to hear your definition of rationality. In those circumstances suicide most definitely is a solution and one can’t very well argue that suffering is temporary, can you? Whenever I hear that old mantra (made up by a television host of all people) about the supposed temporary problem I always think of Oscar Wilde: a witty saying proves nothing. One might add that a general statement also proves nothing: even if it were true in 99% of the cases there’s still the 1% who are getting screwed by the system and whose rights are trampled upon for no good reason at all.

    I have one last question: how on earth can you be certain someone was depressed, psychotic, manic… at the time of their suicide? Suicide researchers must have special powers ordinary humans lack: how else can they know with any degree of certainty someone was mentally ill when they died, especially if there were no witnesses, and to my knowledge autopsy results don’t include signs of mental illness. Aside from the fact that in the case of these disorders diagnosis is always subjective (there aren’t any objective tests for it, at least not that I know of) that statistic reeks of pseudoscience and confirmation bias. Julius Caesar already knew this in his day: people believe what they want to believe. In other words: the actual truth of the matter usually has little to do with it. Especially in the social sciences this is a common problem which is made worse by the very low prevalence of studies falsifying other studies (low as compared to the natural and applied sciences).

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:

      Zara, as usual your comments deepen the discussions on this site. Thank you for contributing.

      I want to address a few points, one of which is fairly minor.

      First, the minor point: Researchers determine in various ways whether someone who died by suicide had a mental illness. The most obvious way is to look at prior diagnoses. In addition, researchers conduct what is called a psychological autopsy. They interview friends and family of the deceased to learn about observable symptoms that the person might have displayed. Undoubtedly, many cases of mental illness are missed this way, since outside observers cannot know what the person’s internal experiences were.

      Second, as for me, I do believe there are instances where suicide should be permissible, and those have to do with a terminal, painful illness where death is imminent. Otherwise, I fear liberalizing laws any more than that, because of the proverbial slippery slope. We are already seeing the effects of the slippery slope in some European countries (yours included, I believe) where people are helped to die on the basis only of a mental illness. When a person who wants to die has an illness for which the desire to die is a symptom, then how do we say that that person is of sound mind to make such a decision?

      Finally, your argument seems to be against laws that forbid suicide. Whether there are laws permitting or forbidding suicide, society will always be helped by trying to minimize unnecessary deaths. So, too, will be the individuals be helped who desperately wanted to die and later find themselves grateful to be alive. There are many of those individuals!

      Thank you again for your comment. You always prompt me to think deeply of the issues that you raise.

    • Joe says:

      That doesn’t at all address the issue of objectivity. Not only do “internal experiences” go unexamined but life circumstances as well. The problem with the criteria for mood disorders is that they focus on functioning in a vacuum as though there should be no difference at all between someone living in pain and someone not. The objective approach is to look at all the factors involved and not merely define away entire slabs of human behavior as symptomatic of illness. If someone was punching you in the face would the rational response be to smile and say, “Thank you, sir! May I have another?” simply because people are normally content? Context matters.

      The desire to die is a symptom of mental illness for the same reason that political dissent was a symptom in the USSR – it has simply became a part of the dominant paradigm. To assert the legitimacy of a psychological autopsy solely by invoking the field’s own conclusions is as circular as maintaining the credibility of sluggish schizophrenia by appealing to “reform delusion”. In both cases a behavior has been defined as irrational based on a consensus of social disapproval rather than any demonstration of irrationality.

      The slippery slope we’re seeing is a symptom of the stigma of mental illness rather than the inevitable conclusion of the right to die movement. When, for example, the biggest autism advocacy organization portrays autistic children as useless burdens that destroy marriages while parents choose to leave their kids vulnerable to easily treatable deadly diseases because of myths of vaccines causing autism the impetus to keep suicide available for the disabled makes a lot more sense. Your own field is partly to blame for this by contributing to the conventional notion that all of the ills of humanity can be safely attributed to defects. This leads people to “other” individuals who don’t fit their image of an ideal human giving rise to the dehumanization of those who fall short. If there were acceptance of the “dark side” of human experience rather than a concerted effort to externalize it and put forth a narrative of the human experience becoming wholly compromised this slope may not have even existed. Mental illness shouldn’t even be relevant here because its presence does not completely invalidate one’s reasoning.- the rationality behind one’s desire to die needs to be examined on its own merit.

  226. Cas says:

    I found this site while looking for sources for an essay, and I wanted to say this is very informative. I think that life is in a constantly moving flux of emotions, and that people will always have emotions of intensity based on the way their surroundings effect them.
    I was born into an average family, but then everything changed when I got into middle school. I didn’t have any friends (I had transferred), and – being the ‘new kid’ – I was bullied for being bigger and for acting different.
    I only had one friend, and her name was Casey. People made fun of both of us because we became friends so quickly, and they spread rumors about us. Once, my bully showed up to my house, and I was beaten up so badly I used a whole thing of foundation covering up bruises.
    My parents later announced that they were getting a divorce.
    Casey thought we were too close, and said I was too clingy – so she stopped being my friend.

    All of this and more led to me cutting.
    At first, it was just out of curiosity – to see what it felt like when the sharpness of the razor kissed my skin. But I developed a need for it whenever I got upset.
    In eighth grade – My mom saw the cuts that laced my arm, and she panicked. She took me to the ER and I was taken to a mental hospital from there.

    In the mental hospital, I had to take these tests- and the results came back positive for “Mild to Severe Depression”.

    Sometimes I have good days, sometimes I have horrendous days – And, yes – I’ve been on that ledge before. I’m so glad that I was talked down from that ledge (actually, it was a cutting relapse, so talked into dropping the razor?).
    I’m glad my dad got overly protective and took all of my razors away, and said I wasn’t allowed to shave until I was 15. (Even though he was actually joking with me, I later found out.)

    I’m especially glad my older sister called me in the mental hospital (during my second stay) because I felt like I was living for nothing until she called and told me that I was living for myself and my happiness, so I need to do what makes me happy.

  227. Nathanial says:

    I have a friend with borderline, which, from what I know, is more unmanageable. She has attempted suicide around 5 times, and has felt suicidal for the past 4 or so years. Right now, I am one of the few things keeping her alive, as she is worse every year. She’s on medication, sees counselors and therapists… there’s not much more to be done. And she wants to die. She’s begged me for permission to die. She is in more pain daily than I can even imagine.
    Your argument claims that suicidal thoughts are always temporary, and that almost everyone who attempts never attempt again. You say it is a “permanent solution to a temporary problem” but this isn’t a temporary problem. In a lot of cases it is something they will have to live with for years. She wants to die, just doesn’t want to hurt anyone. She has been saying for months that it will be soon, before her siblings are old enough to really remember her. And right now I’m struggling with figuring out if it would be so terrible if she did… if her pain would finally stop.

    • Lucy says:

      How strange. Why would she need “permission”? Its not up to you! Its not your call either way. If she lives she must first live for herself even if its only to be there for others, she has to make that choice herself. You may understand if she does even if you’re hurt and missing her but that’s not the same as giving permission.

    • Nathanial says:

      What keeps her here is guilt over the pain people would feel. She wants me to say I wont hate her for it and that I wont be hurt. Permission was the wrong word. She wants me to let her know Ill be ok.

    • Lucy says:

      Oh ok. I understand. Well how do you feel about that? She needs to know that you would love her no matter what. Tell her that you would prefer for her to stay and that she needs to seriously think if that’s really what she wants. Remind her that its not a decision she needs to rush into. Death is eternal, she can afford to take the time and think thoroughly about such a final decision and see if its necessary. Remind her that it won’t just end her suffering but absolutely EVERYTHING. Life can include many things of which strife, despair and suffering are only a part, death provides nothing. She may or may not come to the conclusion that life just isn’t worth it to her. I have a friend who is bipolar and she’s had many hospital stays, many manic and depressed episodes that have derailed her life plans and yet she isn’t really someone who wants to die. She travels and sings, changes her hair color, writes music, paints and even wrote a book called “The Motorcycle Memoirs: Adventures in Mania and Semi-normality”. She manages to live a full life full of amazing experiences but this is not true for everyone whether they have a mental disease issue or not. Sometimes the quality of ones life isn’t endurable, sometimes people cannot change their life no matter what they do, sometimes there just isn’t enough. Sometimes people just need to know there’s an ‘out’ to give them the courage to go along a while longer, sometimes people cannot endure.

  228. Lucy says:

    Hmm. I find some contradictions in your argument. You say ” Hopelessness itself is a symptom of depression” but then go on to state how one woman dying of cancer in her last days found meaning and purpose in her being alive, though in pain. Surely dying from cancer is a hopeless situation yet you admit the woman was not depressed. Suffering while you die from a catastrophic disease is hopeless, to find meaning in it is practically a religious sentiment so you’ll have to excuse others if they don’t find meaning in their pain. The idea that we will interpret experience in the same way is a dangerous and alienating assumption.

    You do not have to be depressed or mentally ill to want to kill yourself, there are other factors that can lead to such a decision and that is what rational suicide asserts. Its a strange choice of course because what one is really choosing is not a negative nor a positive but a zero. Death offers no expectation, there’s no ease of suffering because there’s no pain, there is no pain because there is no joy nor happiness. Death is nil, a physical happening with no consciousness, no self means no awareness…but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid choice vis a vis life.

    The fact of the matter is that the people who choose rational suicide are not the ones who walk into your office or that of a therapist or psychiatrist because they are not looking for help, they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them. They do not call suicide hotlines frightened and crying for help because they are not in the middle of a despairing spontaneous act. Rational suicides are often planned well in advance (sometimes years in advance). These are not the people who call their friends or family in the middle of the night lamenting that they are thinking of killing themselves. So in terms of this discussion it really doesn’t matter if 90% of those who commit suicide are suffering from a mental illness, rational suicide doesn’t address that percentage but rather the other 10%. I would venture to say that it would be difficult to determine how many suicides are rational or not since there is a knee-jerk assumption that the very act is a sign of mental illness especially if the person wasn’t terminally ill (and even then they want to make a case for ‘depression’). The term depression is bandied around so often and tagged on to so many situations that the word hardly describes anything concrete anymore.

    Suffering whether emotional or physical may end for some but for others it cannot be endured, the question is rather do we accept the decision they make for themselves or become invasive and insist upon our own notions of what is and isn’t endurable, the job of a good counselor is to get someone to figure out what that is for themselves (what is endurable, for how long using what internal mechanisms as support). We can never truly live in each others skin, we don’t know whether someone’s emotional suffering is fleeting or a dull constant pain, for others still its a matter of neither but quality of life and what they are willing or unwilling to live with. As the Stoic Seneca once wrote “Our care should not be to have lived long as to have lived enough”.

    Rational suicide is a decision that does happen even if its difficult for people to comprehend. In decisions of life and death we can only know what we would want for ourselves, we cannot determine what it should be for others. I’m reminded of the dialectic between mother and daughter in Marsha Norman’s play ‘Night Mother. The daughter makes a decision built not just on her past but on the rational consideration of probability that lies in her future, which isn’t certain, merely likely. Yet how can anyone doubt the deep truths the character is trying to impart. I listen to both characters express their experience and both are true. The mother cannot help but embrace life, she fights for every once of it and the daughter is tired, the kind of tired that rest doesn’t cure, she’s functional, she can live another day but just doesn’t want to, finds no reason to, from a philosophical point of view they are both right! I think of the film Million Dollar Baby and I feel nothing but horror and empathy for the character who’s youthful body is broken never to be fixed, never to move, feed nor bathe herself. She can never sit in a chair or go for a walk she will never live life fully but is still condemned to a full life so she begs to die. I can sympathize, understand and respect her choice, I think there should be ethical doctors who can respect those kind of choices.

    The fact is that those who would commit rational suicide will never discuss their choice with anyone save others who are philosophically in alignment with them, otherwise they find society ready to label them, take their rights away and otherwise treat them like children and that’s too bad because we would learn a lot more about how they came to their decision and the nature of their experience if we allowed them to voice their truth. As it stands there is nothing but platitudes, hysteria and rush to intervene at the very mention of the subject.

  229. Richard says:

    Indisputable truth. All who are born will die. The loss of one who has fought the fight and passes naturally is easier on the living. Except, perhaps the death of a child. Those who choose to leave early, without question, are thought of much more, and linger in the minds of those who loved them for all their lives. Put it where it belongs. Suicide, in of itself, is neither selfish nor reflects ill on those who follow through with it. The survivors, in my opinion, naturally self-search themselves for blame or contribution to the purpose of suicide. Life goes on. You cannot turn back the hands of time. It is better to move forward and make your world more meaningful rather than spreading misery through rumination and prolonged sorrow. You need not worry about the dead. It is the living you should worry about. If Christian, suicide is not an unforgivable sin. There is only one unforgivable sin, and it is not in the “Ten Commandments”. Read the Bible carefully. That point is very clear. For all others, suicide of a loved one does point to the fact that you have love in your heart, enough to grieve. That speaks well of you and to the fullness of your heart. Empty the cup to see what is in it. It will refill…I promise.

  230. Anonymous says:

    I would rather pick the time of my leaving, than than the cancer. JMO. Oh and will.

  231. K.A. says:

    Your assumption that everyone’s suffering is temporary is presumptuous. To rattle off some platitude like that for people who have no quality of life and no hope of quality of life shows a marked lack of compassion.

    • Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW says:

      K.A., I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m certain you’re not alone.

      I agree with you that it’s presumptuous to assume that suffering is temporary. Isn’t it also presumptuous to assume that suffering will never end? In both cases, one is making a presumption about the future.

      I have witnessed so many people who were absolutely convinced that their suffering would never end, and whose suffering did in fact end or at least transform into something bearable, that I cannot ever presume suffering is permanent. I must make the presumption in the direction of hope.

      Some people lose hope that their suffering will ever end. Hopelessness itself is a symptom of depression, and in my experience, hopelessness is far more often (if not always) a trick of the mind, rather than truth.

      There are cases where medical doctors can say with certainty that a disease will not reverse itself, and that physical pain will remain or even worsen. So in that sense, the suffering is not temporary. But I have also seen people in the throes of intense pain, even one woman dying of cancer in her last days, who found meaning in their suffering and found purpose in being alive.

      In those instances, the physical suffering was not temporary. But the emotional suffering was.

      We can never be certain that emotional suffering is permanent. There are no tests, no X rays, no medical knowledge to justify such a prediction.

      Even so, people have survived indescribable suffering and persisted in their will to live. Suffering alone is not a cause of suicide. Suffering + hopelessness, suffering + mental illness, suffering + substance abuse – these combinations, and others like them, are the forces behind suicide. Otherwise, with the great numbers of people who endure physical or emotional suffering (or both), the suicide rate in this country would be much higher than almost 40,000 per year.

      All that said, I do believe there are some instances, quite rare, where intervention should not occur if someone decides to die by suicide. These are the cases where death is imminent, due to terminal illness or injuries. That is a post that I intend to write another day. And there are many people who disagree even with that conservative position.

      Thank you for writing. I appreciate hearing an alternative view. Your comment is a good reminder that I need to be mindful of platitudes – and of describing more thoroughly the details that, in my opinion, reveal the truth behind the platitude.

    • Joe says:

      There have been cases of late-stage terminal patients who have recovered (e.g. cancer suddenly going into remission), therefore even prognosis based on the best available medical evidence isn’t absolute; the very same rhetorical question of “Who decides?” applies here as well. It is less than consistent to say that we should deem hopelessness in one case a trick but accept it as incontrovertible fact in the other.

      It is also tendentious to appeal to the “very, very weak” predictive power of psychiatry given that the stance of the field makes this a self-fulfilling prophecy. The fact is that there are factors we could investigate that could allow us to evaluate quality of life in terms of access to coping resources against stressors (such as the effect of chronic loneliness on life expectancy) and coping mechanisms versus escapist behaviors giving rise to stronger predictions. However, the stigma of suicide both within and outside psychiatry ensures that no researcher in the land would dare to broach the subject for fear of being maligned as encouraging the abandonment of patients at best and Nazis at worst long before yielding any results, let alone securing the appropriate funding. This core assumption of suicide is an untouchable dogma safely protected from potential counterevidence.

      Speaking of culture, how can you be so certain that every single one of those people who regret their attempts now have the perspective you think they do? Our society shames them as cowards, weaklings, and sinners and withholds crucial resources from them until they submit and conform. Furthermore, if we accepted your assumption that depression is always at the helm, learned helplessness would undoubtedly have to play into their mental process. Rather than epitomizing a fairy tail ending, many may simply have successfully learned that they must accept their shells as prisons, bury their pain, and smile on cue so they can continue to receive the bare resources necessary to maintain their existence in a hostile world. Like robbers who have gone to jail maybe the action isn’t what they regret.